Need help with Tyre and TomTom Rider

Discussion in 'Maps and Routing' started by Jeffery Groenke, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. Jeffery Groenke

    Jeffery Groenke

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    TomTom Model(s):
    Rider (Gen III)
    I'm using the Tyre software to plan motorcycle trips. The trips are all on road, some are meant to be paved road only for my street bike and some include dirt roads for the ADV bike trips. I'm having the same problem with both types. I use the Tyre program and select waypoints manually by clicking on the map. The program identifies the points I pick as being on a road and I add them to the route. Then I upload them to my Rider and try to follow them on my motorcycle and have lots of problems. It seems the points I've uploaded aren't actually on the road after all, so I drive by them and the GPS keeps telling me to U-Turn and go back towards where I came from. Sometimes I end up going in circles. If I edit the route and manually mark the waypoint as visited then it sends me off to the next one, but then it repeats again. It's frustrating and not practical to keep stopping to mark the points as visited. Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong and how to resolve this issue? It has occurred to me it would be better if I could increase the distance from a waypoint at which the Rider considers it visited. Can this be done? Would it help?

    I am planning a long trip in the near future and it would really help me to have this solved so I'd appreciate any help anybody can provide.
     
    Jeffery Groenke, Feb 3, 2015
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. Jeffery Groenke

    canderson Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,904
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    TomTom Model(s):
    GO720 GO 740 GO1535 GO1605 VIA1535 GO 600
    Two things. When creating the points with TYRE, zoom up tightly to be sure you have what you meant. As an example, it is very easy to hit the wrong side of an interstate. TYRE will identify it as a road point, but it will wind up being one you will never try to reach!

    Second - it is possible that there are geolocation issues between the map TYRE is using and the map on your Rider. TYRE is using Google for its maps. TomTom is, of course, using their own from Teleatlas. If there is sufficient discrepancy between the two, it is possible to identify a point on-road in TYRE whose coordinates place you off-road on the TomTom map. However, it would be unusual to have such a discrepancy that your Rider didn't get close enough to count the point 'visited'.

    Can you please identify (by coordinates) one of the points created by TYRE that appeared to be significantly out of whack when you rode by them with the Rider? That will allow a direct comparison of the maps at that point.
     
    canderson, Feb 3, 2015
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Jeffery Groenke

    Jeffery Groenke

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    TomTom Model(s):
    Rider (Gen III)
    This is one of the points it missed.

    34.81830, -118.58059

    Hopefully this helps. I've had this problem on numerous occasions. In the past I resolved it by entering the name of the road instead of picking the point with my mouse, then it seems to always find the point. The problem with this is I can't control where on the road it will place the waypoint and sometimes the point it picks doesn't work for my route. Or if I'm planning an ADV route sometimes Tyre gives me "unnamed road" as the road name and I can't enter this as a waypoint.

    Thanks for your response and any insight you can provide.
     
    Jeffery Groenke, Feb 4, 2015
    #3
  4. Jeffery Groenke

    Arno Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    82
    Location:
    Toronto - Pickering, ON
    TomTom Model(s):
    930; GO 620; Start 63
    That does not return a very high resolution on Google, on which TYRE is based.
    Could you give the points before and after this one was missed. Either coordinates or street addresses.

    EDIT

    Earlier I couldn't get a higher resolution than the 200 m scale.
    Had the same in the UK and then at my own place too and though Google was forcing me to use new style maps.
    At the highest map resolution for my place I then clicked the Satellite view and the +/- slider was about mid way. Moved it to full resolution and then switched to maps and everything was normal again.

    Still, to see what may have gone wrong we still need the before and after points.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
    Arno, Feb 4, 2015
    #4
  5. Jeffery Groenke

    canderson Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,904
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    TomTom Model(s):
    GO720 GO 740 GO1535 GO1605 VIA1535 GO 600
    All I'm seeing (in high res, Arno - I can just about count the pebbles in the road) is that, between the TomTom and Google maps, we're on opposite sides of a little dirt track -- and passing by should have generated a 'visited'.

    It would be good to see the points either side, yes.
     
    canderson, Feb 4, 2015
    #5
  6. Jeffery Groenke

    Jeffery Groenke

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    TomTom Model(s):
    Rider (Gen III)
    Sorry I haven't responded quicker but I appreciate your insights. I didn't really keep track of which points it missed and which it didn't, after going in circles a few times I got frustrated and marked a bunch of points as visited and headed off in the right direction. Here are a list of points that gave me trouble.

    34.80363, -118.58943
    34.80397, -118.58122
    34.81902, -118.53682
    34.84988, -118.53692
    34.85511, -118.49454

    If you can help I have some basic questions that would help me out. I've had my Rider for a little over a year and previously had another model TomTom and have always been very satisfied with them. However, I previously did all my riding on the street and though it occasionally missed a point it wasn't common and was only a small annoyance. But a few months ago I also picked up an ADV Bike and am now riding on dirt and fire roads in the mountains and desert. I didn't previously realize but think I've now figured out that the TomTom always calculates the routes itself, when I upload a route from Tyre what I really upload is the waypoints and the TomTom makes it's own route. Do I understand this correctly? However, in the Garmin universe it seems it's possible to upload the actual route to the GPS and follow the route I created in Tyre, or another program. Is this correct? Now that I understand this I believe it will be very important how the waypoints are chosen in Tyre to give me the best chance the Rider will take me near my planned route but it isn't likely to ever follow the exact same route. This seems an inherent disadvantage to the Rider, am I correct? Is there a way to get around this?

    Thanks,
    jgroenke
     
    Jeffery Groenke, Feb 7, 2015
    #6
  7. Jeffery Groenke

    alfie67

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    8
    TomTom Model(s):
    340S TM (2011), ONE XL (2008)
    I use Tyre to create all of my itineraries when I ride (Honda Shadow, homemade mount for TomTom XL) and agree that it is important to zoom in as far as possible in Tyreto insure that the waypoints are positioned directly on your roadway.

    I've now figured out that the TomTom always calculates the routes itself, when I upload a route from Tyre what I really upload is the waypoints and the TomTom makes it's own route. Do I understand this correctly?

    Yes and no. TomTom will always generate it's route between your waypoints; however, you can force it to use the route you want by choosing one or more intermediate waypoints. In general, the more intermediate points chosen, the better the chances are of forcing TomTom to chose your desired route rather than its own, especially when there are multiple road options. I've found that worst case, turn-by-turn waypoints are needed.

    However, in the Garmin universe it seems it's possible to upload the actual route to the GPS and follow the route I created in Tyre, or another program. Is this correct?

    Someone with Garmin experience will probably jump in to answer this...

    Now that I understand this I believe it will be very important how the waypoints are chosen in Tyre to give me the best chance the Rider will take me near my planned route but it isn't likely to ever follow the exact same route. This seems an inherent disadvantage to the Rider, am I correct? Is there a way to get around this?

    You are correct, choosing waypoints accurately and occasionally in abundance (depending on the lay of the land) is needed, and only then will the Rider take you on the exact same route as you planned using Tyre. Sorry, I don't know of another way around this.

    I'd suggest using what you think are adequate waypoints; load into the Rider; then preview it to confirm you have your desired route and if it isn't correct, simply add a waypoint where needed. Pre-planning helps me avoid unexpected surprises - most of the time :)
     
    alfie67, Feb 7, 2015
    #7
  8. Jeffery Groenke

    canderson Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,904
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    TomTom Model(s):
    GO720 GO 740 GO1535 GO1605 VIA1535 GO 600
    Hmm.. Did you REALLY go north at 34.80397, -118.58122? If so, I can understand the problem. TomTom doesn't know that that road even exists north of Ave B. It will have either shown you completely off any road, or perhaps (slim chance) over on 259th.
     
    canderson, Feb 7, 2015
    #8
  9. Jeffery Groenke

    Arno Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    82
    Location:
    Toronto - Pickering, ON
    TomTom Model(s):
    930; GO 620; Start 63
    As others said, TomTom will always chose the fastest route between two points. (Unless you select one of the other options.)

    Google shows your selected route like this: http://goo.gl/maps/khnLf .

    In spite of accepting Dirt road warnings on the GO Live 1535 it decided on the circuitous route:

    img20150207-163908.jpg

    Time is UTC as I had no satellite acquisition when doing the A...B route.
     
    Arno, Feb 7, 2015
    #9
  10. Jeffery Groenke

    canderson Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,904
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    TomTom Model(s):
    GO720 GO 740 GO1535 GO1605 VIA1535 GO 600
    @Arno
    I think the whole issue is that he added a waypoint that was on a road that was not on TomTom's map. That would have thrown the whole itinerary off.
     
    canderson, Feb 7, 2015
    #10
  11. Jeffery Groenke

    Jeffery Groenke

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    TomTom Model(s):
    Rider (Gen III)
    Thank you to everybody for pitching in. After making my last post I did some more searching and reading on the forum here and was reminded of the preview feature which I was not using. When I looked at the route in preview I found two points where it went a short distance up a road, did a U-turn and came right back then proceeded on the previous road. This is what was confusing me trying to follow the route. So obviously what was happening was the route Rider chose was different than what Tyre chose. I haven't had a chance yet but my plan is to go back and tweak the waypoints until I get a preview that goes the way I want. I don't know how laborious this will be and it seems a bit of a pain but at least I have an idea now how to solve the problem. So a couple more questions, sorry to be a pain.

    1. I assume as long as I choose the same option "shortest route",which is what I always pick, it will do the exact same thing when I'm riding that it does in preview. Is that correct?
    2. I want to record my route but can't because I don't have enough free memory available. Somehow I have loaded both the US & Canada map and the US, Canada & Mexico map. I don't think I need both and since I'm not planning to go to Mexico I assume just US & Canada is fine. Is that correct? How do I delete the map I don't need?

    Thanks again to everybody,
    jgroenke
     
    Jeffery Groenke, Feb 7, 2015
    #11
  12. Jeffery Groenke

    canderson Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,904
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    TomTom Model(s):
    GO720 GO 740 GO1535 GO1605 VIA1535 GO 600
    Again - TYRE used a Google map that included a road that TomTom's map did not, and one of your waypoints (34.80397, -118.58122) was on that road. That's going to make hash of an itinerary no matter what since your Rider won't route you on a road that it doesn't know about. Ideally, TomTom would know about this road and your itinerary would have been achievable on the Rider. We encourage our fellow users to report missing roads (especially the ones out in the boondocks where you were!) and other problems here >>> http://www.tomtom.com/mapshare/tools/

    1. Yes, if the configuration is the same during preview as the actual run, the run should match.

    2. Connect the device, and use HOME to remove the unnecessary map. However, which one you choose may be a function of which is the more current map. While you may not 'need' Mexico, it could be that the map that contains it is more current.
    Fire up HOME (don't be surprised if you get a new update for HOME if you haven't run it for a while), and have a look at what is loaded now.

    Main HOME menu / right blue arrow / "Manage my Rider" (or whatever it says) / "Items on device" tab / select + by "Maps" / hit "More info" for each of the maps shown
    The "More info" will show the "Version" of the map. Determine which of your two maps is more current (bigger numbers = better). If they're the same, then nuke the US/Can/Mex map, else if one is more recent, nuke the older one.
    By "nuke" I mean the following: Click the box to the right of the map that you do not wish to keep on the unit. At the bottom, use "Copy items to computer", followed by "Remove items from device".
    That assures you have a copy of the removed map if you ever need it for any reason.
     
    canderson, Feb 7, 2015
    #12
  13. Jeffery Groenke

    Jeffery Groenke

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    TomTom Model(s):
    Rider (Gen III)
    You have been really helpful and I appreciate it, I'll make it a point to add those roads in the future. Thanks for the tips on the maps, I'll do that today.
     
    Jeffery Groenke, Feb 7, 2015
    #13
  14. Jeffery Groenke

    Jeffery Groenke

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    TomTom Model(s):
    Rider (Gen III)
    I deleted the old map and I now have plenty of free memory but I followed the directions in the manual and selected "options" form the main screen and I still don't see an option to "record" my trip. Any idea what I'm doing wrong now?

    jgroenke
     
    Jeffery Groenke, Feb 7, 2015
    #14
  15. Jeffery Groenke

    canderson Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,904
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    TomTom Model(s):
    GO720 GO 740 GO1535 GO1605 VIA1535 GO 600
    Should be able to tap main screen to get to main menu, then Options, then Start Recording. It's not there? You should also be able to make a QuickMenu button for it so that you can access it from the main driving screen.
     
    canderson, Feb 7, 2015
    #15
  16. Jeffery Groenke

    canderson Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,904
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    TomTom Model(s):
    GO720 GO 740 GO1535 GO1605 VIA1535 GO 600
    Just out of curiosity, how much space is showing on your Rider now? And by ANY chance are you using a Mac? If so, you'll need to empty trash with Rider connected to actually get rid of that extra map & etc.
     
    canderson, Feb 7, 2015
    #16
  17. Jeffery Groenke

    Arno Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    82
    Location:
    Toronto - Pickering, ON
    TomTom Model(s):
    930; GO 620; Start 63
    Well, that's where I started with TomTom. I only programmed a route B to C (Google map points).

    I did it again just now ant it comes up with a different route, sell below:

    img20150207-233250.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Arno, Feb 7, 2015
    #17
  18. Jeffery Groenke

    Arno Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    82
    Location:
    Toronto - Pickering, ON
    TomTom Model(s):
    930; GO 620; Start 63
    Point B, 34.80397, -118.58122, is not the culprit.
    Point A

    img20150207-234728.jpg

    Point B

    img20150207-234830.jpg

    Route A to B

    img20150207-234903.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2015
    Arno, Feb 7, 2015
    #18
  19. Jeffery Groenke

    canderson Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    10,904
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    TomTom Model(s):
    GO720 GO 740 GO1535 GO1605 VIA1535 GO 600
    @Arno
    See attached. That point (34.80397, -118.58122) exists on a road north of W Ave B on Google, but not for TomTom (what you see in the screen shot is from TomTom's map). That is an example of something that just won't fly.
    upload_2015-2-7_17-0-22.png
     
    canderson, Feb 8, 2015
    #19
  20. Jeffery Groenke

    Arno Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    82
    Location:
    Toronto - Pickering, ON
    TomTom Model(s):
    930; GO 620; Start 63
    How do you get the push pin there?
    TomTom Route Planner starts on W Avenue B.
     
    Arno, Feb 8, 2015
    #20
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.