Tweaking computer voices on TomTom Go 740

[mvl]

I moved some posts from your other thread here, just to consolidate the discussion.

First, does your ttgo.bif file still say you have a go520 (after you deleted it and had it auto-regenerate)? That may be the cause of all your issues as the 520 uses different Loquendo files and the app may be misbehaving because files aren't where expected. gator, does your 740 say GO520 in the ttgo.bif file? (and btw, app 8.371 is the proper latest application for the GO 740)

I've been doing more testing with Loquendo7 on my new GO 930. It certainly works differently than the hint file in Loquendo6.9 (or maybe something broke in map 840). A few months ago, I was easily able to change most TTS phrases, but now only a few roads change.

For example, change "Francisco" to "test" in roadnrEnglishUS.lex, and do route demo from:
- 1730 Powell St, Emeryville, CA, USA
- to City Center -> San Francisco, CA, USA

The first "San Francisco" ignores the hint file, then second "San Francisco" uses it and says "San Test'. If you remove "Francisco"="test", the second "Francisco" is actually pronounced properly.

Even a non-highway location such as a route demo from:
- 1955 Kearny St, San Francisco
- to 10 Francisco St, San Francisco

Even this says the "Francisco" road improperly, and ignores the hint file. This has definitely intrigued me and I have to play with this a bit more.

 

[gatorguy]

No, mine properly identifies as a 740.

 

[mvl]

I looked at the map issue.

There are a couple of issues.

1) There is an incorrect road between the offramp and onramp in the Tomtom map (next to and to directly to the right of the painted arrows on google satellite view). If you erase this road in mapshare, the initial erroneous "keep right" disappears.

2) The "go straight on" is an error. At the intersection, you should turn left on frontage road, not go straight. This was miscoded in the lane guidance icon (see the two straight lanes, not a left turn) which is causing the misspoken "go straight on" voice. No realtime fix is available, you'll have to report this as an "other error" in mapshare, and hope that Tomtom eventually gets around to correcting it in a future map.

3) Seminary drive is coded as a highway, the green roads are "signposts" and they override the road names on the map for TTS. So if you take a turn one step before a highway, and this turn has a "signpost" loaded on it, it will read the signpost "seminary drive" instead of the real "frontage rd".

4) The "then turn right" is accurate, it wants you to turn right on seminary drive a quarter mile down the road.

By the way, your entitled to a free upgrade to map v 840 (from your version 825) within 30 days of purchase. You should take advantage of that since map 840 has improved a lot as Tomtom started to implement lots of lane guidance and started implementing mapshare corrections into their map.

 

[suprnova]

My Tomtom 530 just died on me and Best Buy warranty replaced it with a Go 740 Live. Before any syncing/updating, the bif file states:
[TomTomGo]
DeviceName=TomTom GO 740 LIVE
DeviceVersionHW=GO 740 LIVE

if yours states 520, there's definitely a problem.

 

[misterbk]

mvl: It said Go 520 after I deleted the ttgo.bif and let it auto-regenerate. I replaced it with the original file afterwards. It currently says Go 740 Live. I don't know if ttgo.bif was replaced when I reinstalled the application.


dhn: The map looks correct to me. Try setting the destination North of there on Seminary Drive maybe?

The incorrect verbal directions were for the left turn just after your destination point. It said to "continue straight on, Seminary Drive". Continuing straight on puts you De Silva which does not access Seminary Drive at all, and turning left puts you on Frontage Road.

Maybe this is because of an incorrect community map correction? Can people log on and submit updates for intersections that might be incorrect?

 

[misterbk]

mvl:

If Francisco is not in the hint file, does it say Francisco differently at those two different locations?

i.e. obviously somewhere in the device's software it is doing different speech lookups in different circumstances... I'm curious if they match.

If they do not match, it means there are two different phonetic lookups. (If they do match, it's inconclusive.)

The way this speaks, it almost sounds like it's assembling words using a database of syllables instead of a database of phonemes.

i.e. it has a syllable "fra" or "fr" next to a syllable "n" or "an" next to "sis" and "co"

(Would explain some of the mispronunciations, since looking at those syllables individually you cannot determine the vowel. "sis" comes out as "sees" and "co" comes out as "cah" or "cua"

It also would explain the jitters in the middle of vowels, and indecipherable or incorrect emphasis. A jitter or incorrect vowel on a syllable could easily be heard as emphasis even if another syllable was already emphasized.

That could also explain the large file size for computer voices. Most text to speech programs are very tiny, and do not require additional files to change male/female and adjust pitch. Maybe it's drawing from a library of recordings of syllables.

 

[mvl]

If Francisco is not in the hint file, does it say Francisco differently at those two different locations?

Yes, the one that the hint file could edit is pronounced properly. The one that the hint file can't edit is pronounced improperly. So my guess is that, if the hint file were used, less words would mispronounce.

Maybe this is because of an incorrect community map correction? Can people log on and submit updates for intersections that might be incorrect?

You can report this under "report other error" in mapshare. You can't change "go straight on" to "turn left via a realtime mapshare edit, you have to just report it and hope the TT mapmakers fix it in the next release.

 

[canderson]

For the older maps at least, there are three (count 'em) THREE different means by which Loquendo makes a call on how to pronounce something. The primary files are categorized by region (in the NA case, by state) as cspeech files in the map folder, and then there are two files that appear to contain exception lists (*.lex files) in the LoquendoTTS/EnglishUS folder. Neither of the latter two are actually encrypted in any way - they just have the 8th (high) bit set throughout, making them unintelligible without stripping off that bit. Once stripped, the files can be edited with an ASCII word processor. Afterwards the 8th bits must be reset, and the files can then be copied back to the units. You'd need a tool designed for this kind of work or a quick program to strip/restore the high bit.

Like you guys, I have not come to a solid conclusion about WHEN the cspeech vs. lex files are being used.

 

[canderson]

Phonemes

FWIW, here's what I was once able to discern about Loquendo phonemes, if you're interested in trying your own words and phrases:

 

[mvl]

For the older maps at least, there are three (count 'em) THREE different means by which Loquendo makes a call on how to pronounce something. The primary files are categorized by region (in the NA case, by state) as cspeech files in the map folder, and then there are two files that appear to contain exception lists (*.lex files) in the LoquendoTTS/EnglishUS folder. Neither of the latter two are actually encrypted in any way - they just have the 8th (high) bit set throughout, making them unintelligible without stripping off that bit. Once stripped, the files can be edited with an ASCII word processor. Afterwards the 8th bits must be reset, and the files can then be copied back to the units. You'd need a tool designed for this kind of work or a quick program to strip/restore the high bit.

Like you guys, I have not come to a solid conclusion about WHEN the cspeech vs. lex files are being used.

I thought that cspeech was only used by the Nuance ASR, not the Loquendo TTS. TTS seems to work fine without those files.

Also, on Loquendo 7 on the newer Tomtoms, the high bit isn't stripped so everything's plain text.

 

[canderson]

I thought that cspeech was only used by the Nuance ASR, not the Loquendo TTS. TTS seems to work fine without those files.

Also, on Loquendo 7 on the newer Tomtoms, the high bit isn't stripped so everything's plain text.

Geez, I HAVE been out of this for too long! Need to get my brain wrapped around this product again. I've spent the last four months or so working closely with a "competitive" product. No maps for my TomTom where I was, so didn't spend any time playing with it.

I was thinking of the big files -- and the correct "big" file type is the ATM, not the cspeech files. They're all in Loquendo.

Interesting that they have dropped the 8th bit business. Your job will be a lot easier. The older models ran the roadnr.EnglishUS in plaintext, and only fiddled the more interesting EnglishUS file.

On the new models, do they still have separate EnglishUS and roadnr.EnglishUS files, or have those been consolidated?

Anyway, it sounds like 7 is more or less the same as 6 -- three levels of files involved. I never could figure out which would be invoked, either... it didn't seem to be consistent, so a change I'd make to the EnglishUS file (and what a weird load of stuff they have in THERE!) didn't always seem to override the base lexicon.

Which models picked up Loquendo 7 vs. the older Loquendo 6.9?

 

[mikealder]

As far as I can tell x20/ x30 used the 6,9 version and x40/ x50 units got the 7,0 or possibly 7,1 if someone has manually updated the Loquendo voices with a download from the TT server. the XL IQ Live with TTS (only certain markets) also run the 7,0 or 7,1 Loquendo version - Mike

 

[canderson]

Has anyone ever tried running the version 7 Loquendo with 8.351 on something (e.g., a 730) that originally came with 6.9?

 

[mikealder]

Yes, and it works just download the voice file packs straight from the server at TomTom then use WinRar to install the download straight to the device - Mike

 

[mvl]

The x30's got Loquendo 7 as well (at least as an upgrade).

- My 930 is offered Susan 7.0 and Dave 7.1 from HOME.
- My 720 is offerred Susan 6.9 and Dave 6.9.

It's the only non-color difference I've ever found between the x20 and x30 models.

 

[canderson]

Would like to experiment with the 7 version on my 720, but of course, that isn't offered. Any direct link to the 7 version at tt.com?

 

[mvl]

Has anyone ever tried running the version 7 Loquendo with 8.351 on something (e.g., a 730) that originally came with 6.9?

I tried with 8.351 and Loquendo 7.0 didn't work on my 720. I think that app 8.350 and later somehow enforce the Loquendo license.

I remember that Loquendo 7.0 did work with the Tomtom Work app 8.320.

 

[mvl]

I found a pronunciation fix, and posted a sticky here.

 

[c4791p]

The x30's got Loquendo 7 as well (at least as an upgrade).

- My 930 is offered Susan 7.0 and Dave 7.1 from HOME.
- My 720 is offerred Susan 6.9 and Dave 6.9.

It's the only non-color difference I've ever found between the x20 and x30 models.

Question, when I first set up my new 740TM Live (a week ago tomorrow) I was offered Dave and Susan as my TTS Computer voice options to download. I picked Susan since I more easily hear and understand female voices. But, I have read people saying exceeding complementary things about Dave pronunciations. I can no longer find a way to down load Dave via HOME, however. Selection being offered iallows only choice from any already installed voices sitting on my Device or in its SD card. No "On Line" option offered.

Suggestions pls.

 

[canderson]

I can no longer find a way to down load Dave via HOME, however.

Fire up Home

Add Traffic, Voices, Safety Cameras, etc.
Voices
Computer Voices
Dave