TomTom should offer Lifetime Map Updates

Discussion in 'Maps and Routing' started by Lakuma, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. Lakuma

    Lakuma

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    How many people here think TomTom should offer it's customers a one time payment for a Lifetime of map updates per device? I know that TT offers a 1 year subscription, but it doesn't compete with it's competitors!

    Garmin offers Lifetime Map Updates for only $119.99 nMaps Lifetime?

    Navigon offers 3 years of updates for only $49.88 Amazon.com: Navigon FreshMaps Map Update Service: Electronics

    Would it draw more people to buy TomTom's? I know I would participate in the offer!
     
    Lakuma, Mar 2, 2009
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  2. Lakuma

    mvl Moderator

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    Tomtom currently has far superior map technology (at least they will by May) when they will be integrating mapshare edits, historical driving speeds, and historical offroad driving corrections into their maps.

    Currently Navteq (used by garmin) is at least 1-2 years behind in the map-updating game. I suspect Garmin/Navteq are deliberately are trying to downplay/minimize the value of maps in the average consumer's eye, so they are offering their maps cheaper and for free.
     
    mvl, Mar 2, 2009
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  3. Lakuma

    greal

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    Something's cooking; here's what I have in my logs:

    02/03/09 10:32:05 AM https://community.tomtom.com/shop/getMapSubscriptionProposal: Error from server: Severe server error: return code header missing

    So... they're not there yet, but the servlet definitely looks encouraging!

    Edit: Argh, the URL is being abbreviated and you can't see the important part in it: it's called getMapSubscriptionProposal
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
    greal, Mar 2, 2009
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  4. Lakuma

    greal

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    What are you talking about? my latest Navteq maps for my nuvi (2009.11) were those provided by Navteq last November (or December, feel free to dig up the correct info).
     
    greal, Mar 2, 2009
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  5. Lakuma

    mvl Moderator

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    Navteq has new maps, and in many parts of North America they are better than tomtom/teleatlas maps.

    What I was saying is that tomtom's crownsource updating technology is 1-2 years ahead of Navteq. Teleatlas maps have been improving mush faster than Navteq maps, and I suspect they will overtake Navteq in North American accuracy by late 2009. I think that's why Garmin/Navteq are lowering price of maps, to give the consumer the illusion that maps are cheap / commoditized, since they see the writing on the wall that they will soon be at a quality disadvantage.
     
    mvl, Mar 2, 2009
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  6. Lakuma

    gatorguy

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    Not so sure I'd make that jump MVL. Even in Europe Navteq mapping is better and more thorough in some areas than TA's mapping.
     
    gatorguy, Mar 2, 2009
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  7. Lakuma

    GarCor

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    I am glad you say in some areas , however you fail to say TT are better in other areas.

    They both have good and not so good coverage in different areas.
     
    GarCor, Mar 2, 2009
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  8. Lakuma

    Malouff

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    You can now see were one area is better with Navteq and another is better with Tele Atlas Maps.
    None of these providers are 100% correct for everything.

    TomTom/Tele Atlas may have technology that could improve maps using our tracklogs but we have yet to see it implemented.
    Even with the tracklog data TomTom may still have to verify the data before we see that data get implemented. If they need to do it for every area that could take years before we see any drastic improvements.

    What is the point on having/collecting tracklog data then f it must be first verified before implemented:
    It shows/targets the areas that need improvements, it collects aggregate speed data, etc.,

    I will say that TomTom/Tele Atlas do have great marketing people and a great backend technology but at this point I don't know if they have the resources to verify very much tracklog data.

    Another hard fact is Navteq does has money and resources.
    They also have a lot more customers to continue getting more money and resources.

    Tele Atlas has TomTom as there primary customer so that gains them less money as they are just exchanging dollars internally and probably Google as their other know customer.
    Even the Mio that used Tele Atlas maps has moved to Navteq.

    I would feel safer with a lifetime Navteq as I know that company will survive the recession where Tele Atlas may or may not.

    TomTom may just have to rely on not verifying the tracklog data to compete.
    We would then see all kinds of new roads added/removed hopefully the amount of tracklog data for a road and the speed could also help classify the road.

    We however would not get any ALG data with these tracklogs.

    But I do agree that it's time for TomTom to compete with maps and a lifetime would be enjoyable but don't count on it.
    If anything it will be a subscription much like they offer in Europe.
     
    Malouff, Mar 2, 2009
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  9. Lakuma

    Lakuma

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    I agree too that TomTom should offer a Lifetime Update Service. To the average users that is comparing two GPS systems which one do you think they would choose? One price one update....or..... One price lifetime update?
     
    Lakuma, Mar 2, 2009
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  10. Lakuma

    Peter715

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    I agree that TomTom should offer a lifetime update service.

    I don't know if you've seen some of the other things I have posted on here, but over the last week or so Ive been having the same kind of rant.

    come on Tomtom, get with it!
     
    Peter715, Mar 2, 2009
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  11. Lakuma

    greal

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    Oh, I totally agree with that. I've been using TomToms and Garmins for some years now and I can vouch for a very significant progress TeleAtlas maps have made in North America. Why, just 2-3 years ago they were annoyingly inaccurate - now they're on par with Navteq's.
     
    greal, Mar 2, 2009
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  12. Lakuma

    greal

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    There's the rub. Lifetime updates, a la numaps (lifetime maps from Garmin). Alas, I suspect they're only going to offer an annual subscription - something like 4 maps for the price of 1. Not even close to Garmin's offer. :mad:
     
    greal, Mar 2, 2009
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  13. Lakuma

    mvl Moderator

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    I think personal navigation devices are quickly approaching declining returns in features, so I expect standalone new unit sales to start a severe dropoff by mid- to late- 2009. IQ routes, HD traffic, live POI (eg x40 google) location updating, and total-cost optimization (gas / hours / tolls) are the last of the truly valuable features. When less critical features like e-book readers and MP3 players are added in, you an see how PNDs are quickly becoming like MS office, where the lack of added value prevents most people from bothering to pay for an upgrade.

    The true value will quickly change to map freshness, including IQroutes density, and live POI accuracy, so I think tomtom is smart to move quickly to a subscription-based model. I think Garmin/Navteq is shooting themselves in the foot by offering these low cost / lifetime updates. They expect device turnover to continue at the rates they have seen, but I expect device turnover to dramatically decline.

    I see the remaining related growth areas in:
    - urban non-driver location-based services (heavily map-update dependent)
    - time-of-day road restrictions / height restrictions (heavily map-update dependent)
    - global expansion (purely map-dependent)

    And garmin's free-map models will hurt them here.

    Tomtom has some areas to improve on, namely automotive large-screen integration, multi-stop itinerary auto-sequencing, and off-road navigation. But Garmin/Navteq has already achieved those so again I don't see much growth for Garmin/Navteq in those areas.

    This will be an interesting industry to follow for the next few years.
     
    mvl, Mar 3, 2009
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  14. Lakuma

    greal

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    Heh. Garmin has a VERY annoying habit of declaring "discontinued" many very interesting models, which have absolutely no technical obsolescence - and they've just announced yet another series of nuvis in an already ridiculously vast line (right now there are some 20-something nuvi models - I mean C'MON!). And as long as "lifetime" is described in small print as "the actual lifetime of a specific device", one can suspect that they could try to force the customers into buying the new models, by simply declaring the other ones "discontinued".
     
    greal, Mar 3, 2009
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  15. Lakuma

    dhn Moderator

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    Ain't just Garmin.

    Go to the UK site for TomTom and see if you can find the 930 listed...........but the 940 sure is!

    What is interesting is that when the x40 line was first introduced in Britain, TomTom said the x40's were NOT replacements for x30's but rather, anciliary products.
     
    dhn, Mar 3, 2009
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  16. Lakuma

    gatorguy

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    AFAIK, "Lifetime Maps" for Garmin is tied to the life of your specific device and has nothing to do with whether it has been discontinued. As far as subscription services, Garmin is already offering those thru their mobile app. That's where the growth will be coming from. IMO, TomTom has made a tactical error by dropping any development of their mobile application. Maps themselves are getting to the point of a simple "commodity", where vendors will go the path of the lowest price. There's honestly little difference in the quality of the maps between the two major providers, at least so far. Little noticed has been the current substantial lead Navteq has grabbed in LBS added value services. I do agree that TA has made strides in the past year with the quality of their maps and their methods of gathering data. But they contribute only about 10% of TomTom's overall revenue and so far have yet to turn a profit, losing more last year than in 2007. There's certainly potential there, but I'm not convinced they can garner enough outside customers to enable them to contribute much to TomTom's bottom line.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
    gatorguy, Mar 3, 2009
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  17. Lakuma

    mvl Moderator

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    I just had to gloat on this prediction..... see link.

    Map 840 is has been pretty damn good for the amount of time I've driven it, the first real dent in my personal mapshare backlog. And the lane guidance keeps showing up in places I wouldn't expect it (eg: small city streets). For me, map 840 alone has been worth the update subscription.
     
    mvl, Nov 27, 2009
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  18. Lakuma

    gatorguy

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    A couple of us had a good conversation on that "Press Release". Read it carefully and you'll see it doesn't exactly say what they want you to believe it does. On a related note, that was no independent study.;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2009
    gatorguy, Nov 27, 2009
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  19. Lakuma

    rhawk3223

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    lifetime map updates

    yes they should offer a one time fee for lifetime updates, i had a co-worker ask me about gps units(which one he should buy), and as much as i like the features on my tomtom, i advise him to get a garmin because tomtom map updates cost to much, and it was a fee every yearr
     
    rhawk3223, Nov 29, 2009
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  20. Lakuma

    Mike_B

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    Bought a 140S back in June and just now connected it to my PC running Home. I was absolutely shocked that my only option for a map update is to pay either $80 for a one-time update or $90 for the update and a 1-year subscription. Heck, I paid only $149 for my TomTom and I can probably get a new 340S for that much. I mean that's like paying $18K for a car and then having the dealer charge you $12K for an oil change.

    I have never heard of any product where the manufacturer charges you for ALL the upgrades since you bought your device. Typically a company simply charges you for the latest version. TomTom, I will go to Garmin or ??? next time, even though I know they'll rip me off too. And make no mistake; your maps are a rip-off!
     
    Mike_B, Dec 19, 2009
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