Routing on TTGO is a joke
- Thread starter kunderboy
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2007
- Messages
- 1
Hi, my name is david. I used the google earth web site to add lon/lat points to my trip plan. I've not tested it yet. It seem that tt is very eu based.
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2006
- Messages
- 46
I've begun to notice something interesting since upgrading to the latest mapset. The older mapset had some minor roads but TT didn't seem to want to route me over them even though I know that taking them not only would have made for a shorter but faster trip.
However, since upgrading, TT has now "seen the light" and does indeed route me over them... sometimes.
I live on top of a plateau and there are several ways up after exitting off the expressway. One road is a major road that goes straight up but getting to it requires a couple of turns onto the foothill roads first. Usually it's the fastest route but can get pretty clogged up during rush-hours with people feeding to/from the expressway.
Another road is an often overlooked switchback residential street that reintercepts an arterial near the top of the plateau. The reason I know about this road is because I often take this it when cycling because the main road is just too chocked full of crazy drivers most of the time. When driving, this road is normally a little slower to go up and down the plateau when compared to the straight up arterial.
TT seems to have some built-in clues about weighting the roads based on time of day as during rush-hours, it will try and route me up the switchback which is indeed faster during those times. Other times, it will try and take me up the main straight road. And no it doesn't have realtime traffic info about this area.
Anyone else experience something like this?
However, since upgrading, TT has now "seen the light" and does indeed route me over them... sometimes.
I live on top of a plateau and there are several ways up after exitting off the expressway. One road is a major road that goes straight up but getting to it requires a couple of turns onto the foothill roads first. Usually it's the fastest route but can get pretty clogged up during rush-hours with people feeding to/from the expressway.
Another road is an often overlooked switchback residential street that reintercepts an arterial near the top of the plateau. The reason I know about this road is because I often take this it when cycling because the main road is just too chocked full of crazy drivers most of the time. When driving, this road is normally a little slower to go up and down the plateau when compared to the straight up arterial.
TT seems to have some built-in clues about weighting the roads based on time of day as during rush-hours, it will try and route me up the switchback which is indeed faster during those times. Other times, it will try and take me up the main straight road. And no it doesn't have realtime traffic info about this area.
Anyone else experience something like this?
One of the things to remember with GPS's is that we still have the option of using common sense. I know how easy it is to turn my brain off while following the GPS instructions.
When I travel to another city, I double check the route with google or yahoo and make sure that the street address is available on my TomTom. In the past I've had situations where the street or maybe the actual address was not to be found on my Classic. So I had to tell it to go to the nearest cross roads.
Using a GPS to navigate in a place where you now the best routes to get there quick, can be a big let down. Because you are expecting the GPS to be as smart as you are and to take the best routes that you have learned by process of trail and error over the years. Past experience with at least my Go Classic tells me that it will not always select the route that a person with knowledge of the area would take. Case and point. I flew to Florida to see my cousin. I used my Classic to direct me to his house about 1 and 15 min from the airport. While on the way down he called me to ask where I was. When I told him he said he new a quicker route that would save 15 min.
So when someone complains about how it routes, I tell them that my attitude is "When you don't know how to get there, you just want to get there."
Maybe it's a flaw of TeleAtlas versus Navteq. It's probable maybe even likely. But as mentioned before I like the interface of TomTom and the modability over the other vendors.
hermdog
When I travel to another city, I double check the route with google or yahoo and make sure that the street address is available on my TomTom. In the past I've had situations where the street or maybe the actual address was not to be found on my Classic. So I had to tell it to go to the nearest cross roads.
Using a GPS to navigate in a place where you now the best routes to get there quick, can be a big let down. Because you are expecting the GPS to be as smart as you are and to take the best routes that you have learned by process of trail and error over the years. Past experience with at least my Go Classic tells me that it will not always select the route that a person with knowledge of the area would take. Case and point. I flew to Florida to see my cousin. I used my Classic to direct me to his house about 1 and 15 min from the airport. While on the way down he called me to ask where I was. When I told him he said he new a quicker route that would save 15 min.
So when someone complains about how it routes, I tell them that my attitude is "When you don't know how to get there, you just want to get there."
Maybe it's a flaw of TeleAtlas versus Navteq. It's probable maybe even likely. But as mentioned before I like the interface of TomTom and the modability over the other vendors.
hermdog
TeleAtlas is getting better as shown in this article:
http://www.gpsreview.net/navteq-vs-tele-atlas/
TomTom sometimes has tendency to jump off the road, then come back on. I read somewhere that there is an explanation for it (sorry couldn't dig out that link): roads are categorized in classes. If TomTom thinks the road you're travelling is getting worse (class not updated properly by TeleAtlas), it thinks it's worth while to leave that road then come back on.
NavTeq has problems too, only they maybe are not in the same areas as TeleAtlas.
Definitevely the new TeleAtlas is much better now than when I bought my 510 8 months ago. I tried it on the Walmart Atlas, it can locate most of the addresses - in the old days, in obscure small towns, it's sure like hell it won't find them.
The problem with Garmin , is (my opinion only), the data is there but it cannot find the address - if it doesn't like the way you type. Names like St Clare, Saint-Clare , Sainte-Clare... (yes here in Montreal, Quebec it's the same street!) can confuse the hell out of Garmins. Clare is female so her 'saint' terminates with an 'e' in French.
http://www.gpsreview.net/navteq-vs-tele-atlas/
TomTom sometimes has tendency to jump off the road, then come back on. I read somewhere that there is an explanation for it (sorry couldn't dig out that link): roads are categorized in classes. If TomTom thinks the road you're travelling is getting worse (class not updated properly by TeleAtlas), it thinks it's worth while to leave that road then come back on.
NavTeq has problems too, only they maybe are not in the same areas as TeleAtlas.
Definitevely the new TeleAtlas is much better now than when I bought my 510 8 months ago. I tried it on the Walmart Atlas, it can locate most of the addresses - in the old days, in obscure small towns, it's sure like hell it won't find them.
The problem with Garmin , is (my opinion only), the data is there but it cannot find the address - if it doesn't like the way you type. Names like St Clare, Saint-Clare , Sainte-Clare... (yes here in Montreal, Quebec it's the same street!) can confuse the hell out of Garmins. Clare is female so her 'saint' terminates with an 'e' in French.
Last edited:
maps are better, yes but only the coverage
The last update of the maps has definitely improved the coverage of the area I live. Got to admit that. I have however still major issues with how the system routes me to a destination, and the estimated time of arrival.
I have tried to do the selecting of how to route me every time. I have not found that of any difference. Also, the new maps have not helped for the routing or ETA issue. The longer I look at this problem, the more I have to conclude that the problem is related to the TeleAtlas maps.
Recently I hooked my TT to my computer and looked at a route I drive daily. Almost 15 miles, about 1.5 miles surface roads (mostly 45 mph) and the rest freeway (65 mph). Under normal circumstances that takes me about 16 minutes (I do not travel during the rush hour). TT tells me it will take almost 25 minutes. When hooked up to my computer, I had this route run in demo mode. On the right bottom, it shows what speed TT thinks you should be going. I am not 100% sure (only 99%) that TT uses this speed to calculate ETA and also uses this to calculate fastest routes. And much to my surprise, the speeds are not even close to reality. TT wants me to go in demo mode just over 30 miles on the freeways, except one 1 mile stretch where I went all the way to 62 mph. But of a 13 mile freeway ride, doing 12 of those at just over 30 mph, I can see that the calculated time is wrong when comparing to reality. Really funny is that once I hit the offramp, I sped up from 30 to 50 mph while on the offramp. How poor the suggested speed is was shown in a stretch of road going through a housing development. Max speed there is 25 mph, but that is pushing the safety of you and the people that live there (yes, some people go through faster). TT wanted me to go 50 mph on that stretch. Scary.
Now, I am assuming that this average speed classification of roads is done by TeleAtlas. The GPS unit uses this information for it's calculations for the routing (in case of fastest route) and the ETA. In my example, 12 miles at just over 30 mph, 1 mile at about 60 mph and 1.5 mile at about 50 mph adds up to the about 25 minutes TT says it will take, so I am pretty sure I have figured this out the right way.
The calculations for the fastest route and ETA are 100% depending on the correct average speed data for all the roads. And I can demonstrate that this information is absolutely flawed (G rated audience statement). I usually phrase this differently, but could not post it here. And I thought that this was maybe for the roads that were new with the newest map data, but that is not true. Roads that are many years old also are rated wrong, at least in my area. Not all roads, but a lot of them. So, I think TeleAtlas has a lot of work to do. For some GPS users, ETA and correct routing is a must! If it is important for you, I am (at this time) not sure TT is the correct choice for you. If TeleAtlas fixes this problem, I think there is no nicer GPS around.
If you experience really bad ETA calculations, or really bad routing, you might want to verify the achieved demo speeds. If these average speeds are wrong, well, now you know why your ETA and/or route is wrong.
The last update of the maps has definitely improved the coverage of the area I live. Got to admit that. I have however still major issues with how the system routes me to a destination, and the estimated time of arrival.
I have tried to do the selecting of how to route me every time. I have not found that of any difference. Also, the new maps have not helped for the routing or ETA issue. The longer I look at this problem, the more I have to conclude that the problem is related to the TeleAtlas maps.
Recently I hooked my TT to my computer and looked at a route I drive daily. Almost 15 miles, about 1.5 miles surface roads (mostly 45 mph) and the rest freeway (65 mph). Under normal circumstances that takes me about 16 minutes (I do not travel during the rush hour). TT tells me it will take almost 25 minutes. When hooked up to my computer, I had this route run in demo mode. On the right bottom, it shows what speed TT thinks you should be going. I am not 100% sure (only 99%) that TT uses this speed to calculate ETA and also uses this to calculate fastest routes. And much to my surprise, the speeds are not even close to reality. TT wants me to go in demo mode just over 30 miles on the freeways, except one 1 mile stretch where I went all the way to 62 mph. But of a 13 mile freeway ride, doing 12 of those at just over 30 mph, I can see that the calculated time is wrong when comparing to reality. Really funny is that once I hit the offramp, I sped up from 30 to 50 mph while on the offramp. How poor the suggested speed is was shown in a stretch of road going through a housing development. Max speed there is 25 mph, but that is pushing the safety of you and the people that live there (yes, some people go through faster). TT wanted me to go 50 mph on that stretch. Scary.
Now, I am assuming that this average speed classification of roads is done by TeleAtlas. The GPS unit uses this information for it's calculations for the routing (in case of fastest route) and the ETA. In my example, 12 miles at just over 30 mph, 1 mile at about 60 mph and 1.5 mile at about 50 mph adds up to the about 25 minutes TT says it will take, so I am pretty sure I have figured this out the right way.
The calculations for the fastest route and ETA are 100% depending on the correct average speed data for all the roads. And I can demonstrate that this information is absolutely flawed (G rated audience statement). I usually phrase this differently, but could not post it here. And I thought that this was maybe for the roads that were new with the newest map data, but that is not true. Roads that are many years old also are rated wrong, at least in my area. Not all roads, but a lot of them. So, I think TeleAtlas has a lot of work to do. For some GPS users, ETA and correct routing is a must! If it is important for you, I am (at this time) not sure TT is the correct choice for you. If TeleAtlas fixes this problem, I think there is no nicer GPS around.
If you experience really bad ETA calculations, or really bad routing, you might want to verify the achieved demo speeds. If these average speeds are wrong, well, now you know why your ETA and/or route is wrong.
On my TomTom Go, I had to always subtract 30 mins from the final ETA. Which was right on. Haven't really been watching this with my 910, To busy playing with the calling features and the music player. Will take note next time.
hermdog
hermdog
My ETA is consistently WAY off. I have just learned to look at how many miles I have left to travel and just sort of do my own math. It's true though that the closer you get the more accurate the ETA gets. Still a pain that it starts of being so wrong!
The ETA is calculated from distance left and estimated speed on the roads left. Very logical that the closer you get, the better it is. Distance is a multiplier. more distance, bigger number. Once I am half a mile away, I don't need the ETA anymore, but that is when it starts to be accurate, within a minute or so.
I also do not think that TT has a learning mode. If you drive a certain type or category of road at a certain speed, it could adjust the speed accordingly on roads still to be driven. Don't think it has that. That would be really nice. But I would be happy if they get this fixed without speed adaption.
Battom: Am surprised that Consumers Union hasn't seen fit to review the TT 910, it ain't chopped liver....
TomTom reply
I have complained to TomTom about the quality of the routing and the ETA issues I see, explaining in detail why I come to the conclusion that the TeleAtlas data is far less than accurate. This was two month ago or so.
At first I got a somewhat automatically generated answer and replied that that was not what solves the issue.
Answer was basically the typical official answer. "We are sorry you experience some difficulty, we are doing everything to resolve your issue, Teleatlas updates maps all the time but there will be a few exceptions w.r.t. accuracy. Thank you." Well, a few exceptions in my area is kind of an understatement. 10 year old freeways have "poor classifications". My feeling is that 1/3 of the data in my area is wrong as far as classification. I admit that the roads are "available" since the last free update. That part works.
The reply sent to me is that I can send a letter to headquarters. Guess what comes back: "We are sorry you experience some difficulty, we are doing everything to resolve your issue, Teleatlas updates maps all the time but there will be a few exceptions w.r.t. accuracy. Thank you." Except for a few phrasing differences, basically the same. Not even a statement that they looked into my letter and yes/no on my problem analyzing.
As far as I am concerned, TomTom support missed an oppertunity. How likely do you think I will be to buy new maps? They are wrong for what I use them for anyway, so why buy new ones. Anybody who wants to buy a TT go910? seriously! That's how disgusted I am with the TomTom company. Still like how the 910 operates.
I have complained to TomTom about the quality of the routing and the ETA issues I see, explaining in detail why I come to the conclusion that the TeleAtlas data is far less than accurate. This was two month ago or so.
At first I got a somewhat automatically generated answer and replied that that was not what solves the issue.
Answer was basically the typical official answer. "We are sorry you experience some difficulty, we are doing everything to resolve your issue, Teleatlas updates maps all the time but there will be a few exceptions w.r.t. accuracy. Thank you." Well, a few exceptions in my area is kind of an understatement. 10 year old freeways have "poor classifications". My feeling is that 1/3 of the data in my area is wrong as far as classification. I admit that the roads are "available" since the last free update. That part works.
The reply sent to me is that I can send a letter to headquarters. Guess what comes back: "We are sorry you experience some difficulty, we are doing everything to resolve your issue, Teleatlas updates maps all the time but there will be a few exceptions w.r.t. accuracy. Thank you." Except for a few phrasing differences, basically the same. Not even a statement that they looked into my letter and yes/no on my problem analyzing.
As far as I am concerned, TomTom support missed an oppertunity. How likely do you think I will be to buy new maps? They are wrong for what I use them for anyway, so why buy new ones. Anybody who wants to buy a TT go910? seriously! That's how disgusted I am with the TomTom company. Still like how the 910 operates.
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