LE and 3rd

I bought both LE and 3rd, here are my findings:

The 3rd Edition has MUCH better reception!!! It always gets about 2 more satellites than LE does, even in my house. It is MUCH quicker to get satellites than LE after every power on. Actually the LE had to be reset everytime to find signal before I updated it to the latest OS. Since the OS update, the LE has always been able to find signal, but it sometimes took several minutes while the 3rd needed few seconds. I have not installed the quickgpsfix onto neither device yet, because I simply don't accpet the idea that I have to update the data file via an Internet connction each and every week.

I can see why there have been many reports about the signal loss with the LE but not a single one about the 3rd yet. The 3rd simply finds the satellites in no time. They are supposed to use the same chip and the same application, but the 3rd does a significantly better job. The 3rd is flawless while the LE is troublesome on this regard.

However, the LE seems more accurate and sensitive (not signal wise). When steady, the 3rd 's position can be 10 yards off. If I walk slowly at 1 MPH, the 3rd simply does not work actively - it shows my speed to be 0 and won't update my position. So, the 3rd is not for hiking.

With the menu trick, the 3rd can get pretty much all the LE features. The loss of Help Me and map corrections are no problem. For the help me, I can simply brows the map to find my current position and nearby services. For the map correction, I can also go to the map browser, click on the blue dot to go into the map correction menu. By disabling the menu hack, I can put an icon on the screen (re-enable the hack after this), so I can mark an error spot on the go for later correction.

So, I really don't miss anything after the menu hack and I can always go back to the original menu easily. The only thing missing is the auto shut-off feature after I turn off the car. Yes, the LE has this nice feature and so far I cannot figure out the corresponding menu item for the 3rd.

Another nice thing about the LE is: I see dedicated icons for gas stations after the free map 7.10 upgrading. For example, 76 shows by a "76" icon. The 3rd cannot get the free map update because it already comes with 7.10, but the icons are all the same generic pump icon for all gas stations.

The bluetooth of LE is useless, so is the SD slot.

So, the 3rd is my choice, because it is so damn good at finding and holding satellites and I can get all the useful features of LE with a simple menu hacking. Also, the 3rd can be found in many stores while the LE is almost all gone after BF.

The thing I hate to death is the power switch: I have to hold the stiff button for 4 seconds to turn the damn thing on. What's the point about this hassle? To discourage the use of GPS?

Thats wierd mine gets all sats in my house or out within seconds..le

I think your method of testing is flawed. I also have both the LE and the 3rd sitting next to me. I got the 3rd from a BF deal, and just bought the LE today.

The Bluetooth is anything but useless, the Traffic and Weather are better to have than not have.

The expansion slot is also not useless. You can load MORE POI's, more maps, more data, than the 3rd will ever have.

You act like both the LE and the 3rd have the same files on them, you would make for a terrible scientist.

If the LE comes with an older GPSFix than the 3rd, then it would have a slower start.

I, on the other hand, actually did the work and updated both devices to the newest everything. Maps, firmware, and GPSFix, and they both got the satellites at roughly the same time (as in within a margin of a few seconds, each getting different sats in a different order).

So sorry, I don't believe you have made an accurate review. I can show you pictures of my two little TomTom's if you think I am making any of this up. I just got back from Best Buy with the LE a little over an hour ago, and am returning the 3rd Ed.

Vulnox said:

I think your method of testing is flawed.

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Regarding bluetooth: when you have a cellphone, you can just get the weather on the phone. As for traffic: it is a paid service - what's the point to pay $$$ for service on a cheap $100 device? Again, you can get free traffic on your cellphone via google maps.

Regarding the SD slot: POIs etc. don't use much space, no need to get a SD for them. As for maps, only if you really go to Europe that often, you never need a SD for more maps as you can swap maps between your computer and Tomtom one.

As you installed the quickgpsfix on both devices, then they both get satellites in few seconds. Mind you：you then need to connect your LE to a computer every 7 days or it'll go back to slowness. The 3rd always finds satellites in no time, it does not need the help from quickgpsfix.

P.S.: I AM a scientist, good one or bad.

Yes, you could look stuff up on your phone, or just have it on one device that you don't have to fumble around with while driving.

The traffic thing is dependent on the person I guess. You are basically saying you see no benefit from this, so you can't say the LE is worse than the 3rd for this.

Now back to the issue at hand. You can't prove that the 3rd gets it satellites faster because of the hardware when, as I already said and I guess you didn't read, you don't know what software is on the LE or the 3rd. If the 3rd had a more recent, more accurate, version of GPSQuickFix already installed, then it would find it faster just for that reason.

If it had any GPS Fix on it, and the other didn't, or whatever, then it still proves nothing.

You would need an LE and a 3rd Edition with the exact same files and versions on each to test this. But the hardware is the same on both for the most part, just more missing from the 3rd Edition.

So there is no reason for the LE to be worse.

I have shown that the LE is not worse from my initial testing, and without further and long-term testing, there is no way to know for certain if the LE is better or worse.

If you are a scientist, or whatever, then you are a bad one. Any good scientist will tell you you need a control (which you don't have) you need as fair and balanced testing as possible (which you don't have) and you need long term testing (which you didn't do).

I am a Computer Engineer, someone that is actually taught to design and construct microprocessor based devices. So therefore I must be right. Or it could just be that I looked at things from an objective point of view and did not just try to find a way to rationalize my purchase.

Besides, I can do trip itinerary, and all that stuff, right out of the box. You can hack the 3rd Edition to do this stuff, but you lose buttons, and people have said that other buttons get duplicated. So in other words, its a bad solution.

You should be connecting your GPS about once a month (as they recommend) anyway to get Map Corrections, a perk for you regardless of if you have a 3rd Edition or an LE. So if the GPSFix does make the LE and 3rd Edition sit on the same playing field, then whatever, you get all the benefits of the LE, if you use them or not, for the same price.

Also, I have seen people say that their Maps and POI's (because of all the POI's they added and that) are over 1GB, meaning having the SD slot would be nice for longevity of the unit.

Both of you gentlemen offer interesting comments on this topic. But I really don't like the tone of the discussion, where one questions the 'qualifications' of the other to state his findings.

This forum is mercifully free of flaming, so I hope it stops here.

I got an LE on black friday. Waited outside since 11pm for it lol. I think it was worth it. Its my first gps I obviously don't have the experience the majority of you guys do and my input is far obsolete. However, the LE has worked flawlessly for me it finds the satellites in seconds after turning it on from my house and is accurate to a few feet when moving around my house and property and looking at the map. I think it was a steal for $120. And is worth it for $250 but as you know tomtom has their givegive so you can get it for $150 till jan 9th. Thank you for reading my message and I apologize for causing you to lose brain cells. =P

46jimbo said:

This forum is mercifully free of flaming, so I hope it stops here.

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I agree with you fully, that's why I did not flame back but only pointing out that I know what I talk about.

I have tested two LEs and one 3rd, all updated to the latest software (7.161) and maps (710). I have not installed quickgpsfix on neither of them, because then it is pointless to compare their locking performance. I know for sure, because once the quickfix is installed, it can be found in the ephemeris folder.

The two LEs behave exactly the same, both are no compare to the 3rd, in terms of reception. The 3rd almost always get 2 or more satellites under the same condition and it locks to sats in no time.

Again, don't forget the fact: you see many posts about "no gps signal..." from LE owners, almost none about the 3rd. quickfix can fix the problem, but for 7 days only.

Ugh forget it. I take back every good thing I said about the LE.

I tried updated the maps and suddenly it completed and then said no maps were found. I made a backup from the start like a good GPS user and tried to go back to it, no maps found.

So I tried doing an update on the device, it keeps wanting to do the same 8.6MB update. Over and over.

So I looked it up on this forum and another one, does not seem to be an isolated issue.

I still don't agree with the signal issue. I have read what others have said, and they seem like genuine complaints. But it is hard to tell because GPS units can be weird on their own. So I want to maintain that I don't think its fair to say the LE is worse than the 3rd based on one set of results.

At the same time, since I can't even boot the LE to any maps, and I don't seem to be alone, and my 3rd edition is working just fine...

I think I will be calling Amazon and saying I am keeping the 3rd Edition and taking the LE back. This seems like a bad omen.

fixup said:

I agree with you fully, that's why I did not flame back but only pointing out that I know what I talk about.

I have tested two LEs and one 3rd, all updated to the latest software (7.161) and maps (710). I have not installed quickgpsfix on neither of them, because then it is pointless to compare their locking performance. I know for sure, because once the quickfix is installed, it can be found in the ephemeris folder.

The two LEs behave exactly the same, both are no compare to the 3rd, in terms of reception. The 3rd almost always get 2 or more satellites under the same condition and it locks to sats in no time.

Again, don't forget the fact: you see many posts about "no gps signal..." from LE owners, almost none about the 3rd. quickfix can fix the problem, but for 7 days only.

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I vaguely remember reading the same thing when I was trying to figure out which TT1 to get - that the 3rd ed. acquires faster then the LE (like seconds instead of 30-45 seconds for the LE). I understand the GPSFix does help but I didn't realize it only worked for a week.

Dave

LE is far better then 3rd!

fast tracking, SD slot, longer battery life!

cgigate said:

LE is far better then 3rd!

fast tracking, SD slot, longer battery life!

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Does it really say longer battery life? I had read that it was worse because Bluetooth drains batteries like crazy. Running an SD card is just extra current as well.

The fast tracking thing I think is what was being debated.

LE has more features, no question about that. Other than that, my real-life experience makes me toward the 3rd and, with an easy menu hack, the 3rd can have just about all the useful features of LE. I have not done a serious battery life test, but the 3rd seems somewhat longer.

BTW, I also tested a V7 NAV730. It is the same category as LE and 3rd, for $99. It has a much better hardware with decent battery life, power switch and side power jack etc. It can also say street names, but it does not tell me to stay on left or right like Tomtom does which is more important to me. The voice is not as lound and clear as TT's, quite difficult to understand, "turn right" sounds like "turn drite". It has full features like multiple waypoints, but it cannot do alternative routes. It does not show nearby gas stations on freeway but it does in downtown. The touch screen is not reliable, have to press again all the time which is a big problem while driving. Overall it works very well, I returned it mainly because TT allows me to edit maps and POIs, far more customizable with lots of hacks. I don't see how I can update maps and firmware with V7. I think GPS is all about maps.

When GPS was $300 to $500 and map updates are more than $100 every year or so, I could not see why I wanted one. This holiday season, they are finally around $100, now I see why not get one, especially that TT1 allows me to edit maps by myself, I can just live with that until the map becomes too old and then I'll just buy a new unit at the price of a new map!

My dad bought a Mio for his first GPS and I used it a bit one weekend I visited him, and that was not bad for a cheap GPS. It was nice that it had the auto night/day.

But the maps seemed bad, and it chose some terrible routes and would not get the hint that you did not want to go that way.

I kind of wish I could get a Garmin 350, but that is just not reasonable in price vs options unless I am missing something. Spoken street names aren't $200 important are they?

Vulnox said:

Spoken street names aren't $200 important are they?

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No, absolutely not worth it. "After 100 yards, turn right"..."Turn right", together with a big right-angle arrow pointing to the next street with its name on the screen, work perfectly for me. The NAV730, for example, talks too much, quite annoying and confusing, I can never understand what street it's talking about (text-to-speech is still too crappy).

Vulnox said:

Does it really say longer battery life? I had read that it was worse because Bluetooth drains batteries like crazy. Running an SD card is just extra current as well.

The fast tracking thing I think is what was being debated.

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Yes, it is really longer battery life.
of course , you turn on Bluetooth would consume more power!

I'm thinking about this:

Tomtom knew the problem of LE and was expecting lots of returns. Dumping them into a single store (Bestbuy) makes this issue less pain.

fixup said:

I'm thinking about this:

Tomtom knew the problem of LE and was expecting lots of returns. Dumping them into a single store (Bestbuy) makes this issue less pain.

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LOL!
LE is best TT 1 ever made!

Yes feature/price wise, until you played with a 3rd ED and realize its solid reception.

fixup said:

I'm thinking about this:

Tomtom knew the problem of LE and was expecting lots of returns. Dumping them into a single store (Bestbuy) makes this issue less pain.

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I just think they had too small of a run to make the LE available to the masses. My guess is they needed to get the 3rd edition out there for the holiday season, "but what to do with all these version 2 parts in our stockroom".

make 1,000-5,000 units and sell them to one retailer.


Is the LE TRULY a version2? Does the version2 have 1GB of flash? And now I read it too has Navcore7 -lite?