Welcome to TTGO 1000

[gatorguy]

I'm with DHN. TomTom's inclusion of approx 5 million poi's in the US and Canada is only a fraction of what's available (estimated anywhere between 26 and 35 million according to who you read). Example: I keep custom POI files with every Home Depot and Lowe's store in the US. When I have a crew out on a job and missing some needed piece of hardware, knowing where the nearest big-box HW store is located saves both time and money. While some representation of those stores are listed on TomTom's (or Garmin's or Motonav;s, etc), it's not even close to all of them. It can cost quite a bit to be directed 15 miles distant when there's a store only 2 miles away. The POI collections on TomTom's are only a sampling of a range of retailers and their locations, not meant to be inclusive nor complete. Prove it to yourself by seeing what percentage of fast-food locations actually show on your map as you drive by them. Free 3rd-party user-compiled collections can be a huge assist and generally much more complete. And fixed Speed Cameras? I guess you don't have those in Massachusetts but that's a current biggie in Florida now that the State has approved any municipality installing them wherever they wish as long as they split the revenue with the State of Florida. They're cropping up fast all over the state, and the two best files I've seen (POI-Factory and PGPS, user contributed) won't load on TomTom's flagship device unless or until TomTom rolls out an AppStore of their own and comes to an agreement with the 3rd party developers to offer their products on the site. I haven't seen TomTom commit to one yet. FWIW, AppStores as we know them are expected to be in decline after next year according to industry prognosticators. No guarantee that TT would even be successful with one if they do decide to move on it. The mobile market is a-changing.

As for "abandoning Fat32", did that really leave WebOS and locking down access to the OS as the only option? if so then TomTom's PND market has a huge challenge. They don't have a great track record for understanding and quickly correcting device problems. How patient will members here be in waiting for an official TomTo response? Without user forums to assist, their best hope would be for buyers to never attempt updating their devices IMHO. Are they prepared to be overwhelmed otherwise? But then those same customers wouldn't be buying from an Appstore if one is ever rolled out either. With their mobile strategy an under-whelming success so far, personally I'm not convinced they're up to it.

And we haven't really even talked about the reported TT 1000 device deficiencies themselves. So far it's not looking like a 'Flagship" device based on early posts.

 

[mvl]

Home Depo / Lowes? On the high-end POI files, I've seen 100% accuracy for those stores in the Northeast. Perhaps Tampa is different because of the fast pace of new development, but map subscriptions should be able to keep up the pace, and Localeze would help even more.

I think the PGPSW may be making some quick assumptions before an app store is actually launched.

I'm very confident custom POIs will be available on the app store. Things like the pgpsw speedcams could be a huge source of commission revenue that Tomtom probably won't ignore.

And if Tomtom follows Apple's model, then chains like Tim Hortons could continue to publish their POI files free on the app store if they chose.

The loss of a "backdoor" app-loading process is what all us experts are bemoaning, but I can't blame Tomtom on this as they are creating a large controlled front door. I'm convinced the removal of the Navcore 8.x/9.x SDK was purely to minimize the issues that caused support calls. If Tomtom locks down the device and locks down the SDK to minimize points of failure, then they can support 3rd-party customization in a controlled environment like Apple does.

The app store's existence was reaffirmed by Tomtom in their July 21 conference call. I still feel Tomtom's strategic plan is to flood the entire market with in-dash and PND Tomtoms that are compatible with the app store. Then they could become a significant hub for automotive internet-enabled app development. If Pandora, Trapster, and Airsage sold their apps on the store, it would make the GO1000 platform by far the most useful car device out there. You could even see things like a "Kinney Realtime Parking Finder (and payment)" app.

"One device, endless possibilities" seems like a great strategy, the obvious concern is just Tomtom's proven issues with execution. Time will tell.

 

[offthegrid]

If they allow georss in effect you have custom poi creation in the cloud. That doesn't seem to have sunk in with the 'experts' here.

Gator I believe you meant webkit not webOS.

 

[gatorguy]

Yes I did. Thanks!

But again, I;ve never seen them announce the development of an appstore. I've seen that they think it's a great idea. That they think we may see one. That's not a commitment in my mind. But maybe I'm just misreading.

 

[mvl]

But again, I;ve never seen them announce the development of an appstore. I've seen that they think it's a great idea. That they think we may see one. That's not a commitment in my mind. But maybe I'm just misreading.

Per the call, they will release "tools shortly to enable 3rd party development". They then commented that it will be different than what's in the mobile space because they are building a driving-specific platform.

So we'll have a 3rd party ecosystem. They haven't committed to delivery of content via an app store or a personal "content loader" type tool. The app store would be the logical approach as it results in more revenue for Tomtom, but we'll see. Regardless we'll have some type of supported 3rd party capability which we haven't seen from Tomtom since 2007.

 

[gatorguy]

But likely for $ rather than allowing users to load free user-contributed or self-built poi files. Can't blame them for looking for revenue in things buyers get for free now, but their closed ecosystem isn't going to benefit owners in the areas of Favorites and POI's in any way that I can see. What was once free will now be fee in all likelihood. And some POI sets just won't be available at all. But as you've mentioned, we'll need to wait awhile to see what, if any, plans they really have. In the meantime we're just guessing I suppose.

In reality, support/problem solving may be the biggest issue of all.

 

[dhn]

In reality, support/problem solving may be the biggest issue of all.

As fellow mod Mike points out, all we in user forums OR TomTom Customer support will be able to offer are:

1. Reset the unit using the power button for 20 seconds
2. Restore to Factory Defaults
3. Send it in under warranty.

And that is it .....................

 

[mikealder]

Hmm, POI files created "in the Cloud" sounds like marketing speak to me (Snake Oil), great idea in principle but only time will tell if it works or results in useless data.

Look back at the wonderfull "MapShare" again a great idea in theory but due to poor implementation has resulted in something more akin to MapDownGrade Scheme. Even when set to "verified by TomTom" we have seen major roads in/ out of London and Newbury closed resulting in very strange behaviour from the Nav units. Local to me I get bizzare routes due to some idiot adding a roundabout (rotary) that resulted in a blocked main road. this fault is only on the UK&ROI map though, the Western_Europe map is still fine! Another example of so called verfiied map changes is the road between Elgin and RAF Lossiemouth in North Scotland, this stupid error results in a 16 mile trip rather than the 3 or 4 miles it should take. Whilst I fully accept that I have the ability to unblock roads on the map I still question how these errors are allowed through the system to end up on thousands of end users devices - Poor quality control is the answer, I see nothing new on this front so why should I have any trust in "Cloud created POI" files.

Next lets look at the Live services, server outages at peak times of demand. When do you really need a working HD Traffic system in the UK, its on a Friday afternoon, last time I tried it didn't work, the connection simply timed out, to re-start the connection required resetting the device which isn't easy pressing a button for 20 seconds, its also questionable as to whether such an operation is safe while driving.

One thing I can assure you of is that I welcome change when its for the good of the end user, the changes I listed earlier in this thread are all points where the device/ experiance offered are degraded when compared to earlier devices - I certainly don't consider this step as progress in any way shape or form.

As for my three steps of advice mentioned by dhn, there is also the fourth step offered by Andy, whilst rather radical, its something I can fully appreciate - Mike

 

[dhn]

Oh, the fourth step being the big hammer!

Thought you did that with unit two?

 

[gatorguy]

Note that there will also be a Go 1005, with the only notable difference being a 5" screen rather than the 4.3 on the Go 1000.

 

[canderson]

Not having custom poi's will not be a problem if you can use georss or save searches as you could with Dash.

Actually, it's a complete and total dealbreaker for me. I upload a unique set of 4 geocaching POIs each week. These POIs must be constructed from a database. Caches unfound, caches found, caches found but archived, and the caches I've placed. While Garmin has taken some interest in making some of their newer models more caching friendly, TomTom just took a huge step in the other direction. The 1000 will have little value to me on my dashboard since this is one of my primary uses for such a device.

As a preemptive move, I recently picked up a GO740 as a "backup" to my old 720. Both still have features that I use, although the 740 audio out issue has been far too entertaining.

If this is where TomTom's new products are headed, my 720 and 740 and I are going to have a long relationship, or I'll be jumping ship.

 

[canderson]

I believe if they take away custom poi that in itself is a change correct? I mean you just wrote a list of changes that you can't live with but you started by saying that people aren't afraid of change?

You have entirely missed the point. More than "change", TomTom has pared away a great many features that were once common and were some of the features that attracted new users to the TomTom device as opposed to the competition. For whatever reason, they've chosen to concede that market segment.

Let me give you an example. When the Germans got hold of Chrysler, they took the 300M and turned it into the 300. Both have been popular cars, but you'll be hard pressed to find a 300M user that ever even looked at the 300. The 300M was precisely all of the things that the 300 was not.

So perhaps they'll find a whole new demographic to sell to, but by killing off features that led people to buy the TomTom (instead of Garmin) to begin with, they'd better find that new blood quick.

It's so strange. Garmin was once the master of the "closed architecture". They've since begun to open up a bit. TomTom is headed the other way -- trying to mimic Apple, perhaps?

 

[canderson]

The POIs on full-size US Tomtom maps are very good. I'd say they're on par with the best GPS POIs and directories available. My take is they're only second to Google in coverage/reliability.

I'd say they're a tad rough around the edges, but no worse than what you'd get from the competition.

I actually see almost none of our members with full-size maps asking about custom POI files, etc.

Some of us got wise somewhere back at Navcore 6 and figured out how to produce our own. The wealth of POI files that you find on certain web sites is mostly the result of us doing it the hard way. The current 855 map (and fuel prices) still doesn't show the brand where I buy most of my gas, and it's been over a year.

The biggest loss: without direct device access, we won't be able to help much on this forum. If the Tomtom breaks, it'll be pin reset, master reset, then warranty swap. Pretty much the same script that phone support gives.

I hope that they understand the monster they've likely created in potential returned goods. I can hardly imagine trusting my unit to their servers and PC application software.

 

[canderson]

Home Depo / Lowes? On the high-end POI files, I've seen 100% accuracy for those stores in the Northeast.

Since you own one, I gotta ask -- when you talk about "high end" POI files, are you talking about the ones that only come with the older 9XX series units here in the U.S.? The ones we beg Pedro for on a quarterly basis? (Speaking of which). The best that there are to offer aren't offered to anyone else, even if they've got ample memory.

 

[canderson]

If they allow georss in effect you have custom poi creation in the cloud. That doesn't seem to have sunk in with the 'experts' here.

Gator I believe you meant webkit not webOS.

What may have not sunk in is the fact that "the cloud" doesn't know everything (I know that will disappoint the more web-centric folks) there is to know about geolocation. My *.ov2 files can't be built in "the cloud". It's a proprietary database, and the owners get touchy about having it scraped over the net.

The point is that after years of developing applications and use models for the TomTom devices based upon a track record of the feature set, they're pulling the plug on all of that. Wanna bet they run into trouble with most of the businesses using Work unless they open up the 1000 for some custom data? Would have been a nice market segment for them if they hadn't screwed it up again.

 

[gatorguy]

Excellent observations and examples Canderson. Like you I've some experience with competitors and can see the direction TomTom is taking may end up pushing some TomTom owners in their direction when it's time to trade up.

 

[mvl]

Since you own one, I gotta ask -- when you talk about "high end" POI files, are you talking about the ones that only come with the older 9XX series units here in the U.S.? The ones we beg Pedro for on a quarterly basis? (Speaking of which). The best that there are to offer aren't offered to anyone else, even if they've got ample memory.

Yes, the GO 9xx files, and all of the IQroutes-enabled ONE/EASE/XL/XXL devices.

Tomtom's basically sunsetting the older low-end POI file. My guess is that they're not giving any new features (like good POIs) to the older devices, as another inducement to upgrade models. There isn't much hardware-wise that's improved since the 2007 GO 920, so they have to attempt to push upgrades based on software and pricing.

The GO1000 is the first real hardware upgrade Tomtom's offerred in a while.

 

[canderson]

Yes, the GO 9xx files, and all of the IQroutes-enabled ONE/EASE/XL/XXL devices.

Tomtom's basically sunsetting the older low-end POI file. My guess is that they're not giving any new features (like good POIs) to the older devices, as another inducement to upgrade models.

That statement certainly confuses me. The GO740 is (presently) their current top end model in North America, but they distribute the larger POI file for users of the older 920/930, and don't even sell the 940 here in the U.S. We can't be enticed to upgrade to something that they won't sell us.

 

[mvl]

That statement certainly confuses me. The GO740 is (presently) their current top end model in North America, but they distribute the larger POI file for users of the older 920/930, and don't even sell the 940 here in the U.S. We can't be enticed to upgrade to something that they won't sell us.

While the 740 is the "Top of the line" in the USA, it's a 2008 model release globally. All the IQroutes-enabled ONE/EASE/XL/XXL models are 2009 releases or later.

If you have Google POI, you learn to never bother with the built in POI on a 740

 

[mvl]

Looks like some details on the GO1000 are starting to come out:

Maplin released specs for the GO1000, and it's 5" version the GO1005.

Other than the mention of a 5" version, nothing posted seems to be new news. Other than the magnetic mount, all the features were already present on a GO950.