Start 42: device doesn't follow the via-points

Discussion in 'Maps and Routing' started by Gilbert Di, May 25, 2019.

  1. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    > in TomTom mydrive (https://mydrive.tomtom.com) I make a route: beginning point and endpoint
    >I drag the circle icon, then right click on it and choose 'enter via point'. (a flag icon appears)
    > then I have the route synchronized with my device, and the correct route with via-point appears on the device.

    However, when I actually follow the route, the device does not lead me to the via-point but simply directly from the startpoint to the end point.
    (If I make the route appear fully in advance, then the correct route, with via-point is shown - but in reality, it won't be followed ...)

    Is this a bug or do I do something wrong?

    Gilbert - Belgium
     
    Gilbert Di, May 25, 2019
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  2. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    nobody?
     
    Gilbert Di, Jun 8, 2019
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  3. Gilbert Di

    Arno Moderator

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    Arno, Jun 8, 2019
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  4. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    Ok, I'll try this exactly as it is written in the pdf - I'll let you know in a few days - thanx for your answer

    edit: reading the pdf, I have the impression that that pdf is written to be used by the device-itself.

    I suppose I can use this method as well, when I plan the route in TomTomMyDrive and then synchronise it with my device?

    grtn
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Gilbert Di, Jun 9, 2019
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  5. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    I think I got it:
    What I first did: make a route with viapoints online (in mydrivetomtom.com) and then synchronised it with my device.
    Synchronising gives only this option: sync as a track - but: a track doesn't have viapoints ... !
    so in the preview the route ignored the viapoints

    What I now did: I made a route on my device and made some viapoints. And now the preview follows the correct route-with-viapoints.

    Question: isn't it possible to make a route with viapoints (on mydrivetomtom) and synchronise it as a route (with the viapoints) on my device? (its more simple than preparing the route on my device!)

    Gilbert
     
    Gilbert Di, Jun 17, 2019
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  6. Gilbert Di

    Arno Moderator

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    I don't use routes. Someone else may be able to help you.
     
    Arno, Jun 18, 2019
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  7. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    anyway: thank you for trying to help me !:)
     
    Gilbert Di, Jun 18, 2019
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  8. Gilbert Di

    canderson Moderator

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    Unfortunately, there is no way to share 'via' or waypoints that are created on your device using the web interface. MyDrive only creates and exports *.gpx files with lots of track points <trkpt>, and doesn't deal with waypoints <wpt> files. At best, it won't puke if you import something with <rte> style routepoints, but those still don't allow the routing engine to operate as freely as with waypoints. (There are 3 different ways to create such things in a *.gpx, as you can see). You would need to use a 3rd party tool to create a <rte>/<rtept> style of *.gpx file and try importing that to MyDrive.

    Using "Record Route" in your device also creates trackpoint style *.gpx files -- at 1 second intervals! Pretty big files, and sharing or rerunning them gives the routing engine no latitude at all.

    What you really need is the old style TomTom *.itn (itinerary file) file way of doing things. It was the equivalent function of a *.gpx <wpt> file.
    However, if you will be willing to work with a 2nd best choice, find a tool that creates 'route' style *.gpx files and see how you do with that.
     
    canderson, Jun 18, 2019
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  9. Gilbert Di

    canderson Moderator

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    I am going to copy some information here for future reference that I posted elsewhere:

    There are several different legitimate versions of content within a *.gpx file. It is even possible to have more than one version of this content within a single *.gpx file. Two are supported by TomTom. The third is not, but so closely resembles the use of an *.itn file that one can be readily substituted for the other. The tool (or device) you use to create a *.gpx file will determine which type of content the *.gpx file contains. Some tools allow you to select which content is used, and some use their own default. Most devices generate the second flavor () as described below.


    First type of content
    of a *.gpx file is known as <rte>/<rtept>. This file format IS supported by TomTom. Critical points within the route are identified with entries.

    A routing engine is expected to use the points to create the route in the sequence in which these points occur within the *.gpx file. More than one can be defined within the file, each with a unique name, each with its own series of entries to create the route. How the routing engine chooses to achieve each within a route is left to the routing engine's logic, and of course, traffic may be taken into account. Typically, entries are defined for each 'turn' in a route, so as more are added, the routing engine has less leeway in its ability to make decisions about the route.


    Second type of content
    of a *.gpx file is known as <trk>/<trkpt>. This file format IS supported by TomTom. This is the true 'overkill' method of defining a route, and assures that any routing engine will take all users of the file along the exact same path -- though some may include logic to avoid blocked points along the <track>, while others may just leave the user stuck at any known blockage.

    As with <rte>, more than one can be defined within a file, each with a unique name. Further, each contains one or more segments <trk>, within which will be the segment's individual points identified as <trkpt>.

    This is a traditional 'breadcrumb' track where points are typically defined either in terms of distance (a point every x miles or x km) or by time (every x seconds). These files tend to be huge, especially when the resolution of the points in time or distance is small. The consequence of using a file of this flavor is that the routing engine is bound to each point, and hence, the logic of the routing engine rarely, if ever, comes into play. The route is forced to follow each point in sequence as originally built by whatever tool was employed.

    More often than not, this format is used to RECORD a journey rather than to build one, though these are then also often used to reverse an existing journey after reaching its end. Picture taking a hike, and then turning around and using the recording of the outbound journey to backtrack to the start. The point recording interval is typically set by the user (not so in the case of TT when it builds tracks on Nav4 units -- one second per point is locked into the code).


    Third type
    of content of a *.gpx file is known as <wpt>. This file format is NOT supported by TomTom. Within this format, individual locations that are to be visited are identified in the xml as entries.

    This style of *.gpx is very similar to the manner in which *.itn files are used, and may be why TT chose not to bother to support it, though there are quite a number of tools that build *.gpx files using this method, which must then be converted by some other tool to one of the two formats that TT does accept.


    Hybrids


    It is possible to generate and find 'in the wild' *.gpx files that contain combinations of the above. Sometimes, we see tools creating these hybrid files with a combination of <trk> and <rte> entries. For example, if exporting a *.gpx file from TYRE that contains a number of individually identified waypoints that are to be visited, you may well find that the original content has been rendered into a combination of to identify each point, but also an entire run of that could be used to force the exact routing to the entries. It's all a bit odd. It is up to the routing engine to decide what to do when presented with this kind of schizophrenic mix. Ideally, a routing engine is allowed its own leeway in generating a route between <rtept>, but at the same time, it is being presented with <trkpt> which allow no leeway at all. It would be interesting to understand the author's intentions in this regard. Perhaps the objective was to produce a file that could be parsed by engines that did not understand one or the other?
     
    canderson, Jun 18, 2019
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  10. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    Canderson,
    I suppose that this is very comprehensive and appropriate explanation but may I say in 'common English' that it ain't possible to make a route-with-viapoints and copy it (with viapoints) to my Start 42-device?
     
    Gilbert Di, Jun 19, 2019
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  11. Gilbert Di

    canderson Moderator

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    No, didn't say that. At least not yet.

    I believe that if you create a *.gpx file that is made up of <rte>/<rtept> route points, that the MyDrive Web app will accept it. However, you need to use a 3rd party tool that will create such a file.
    There's a program out there called TYRE that many people have used that should be able to generate these files for you. Have a look at this >> http://www.tyretotravel.com/download-tyre/
    The trick is finding a tool that you like that creates the <rte> style of *.gpx file and not <wpt> or <trk>. I just found this interesting link for an online converter the other day >> https://mapstogpx.com/ and it clearly allows for the creation of "Route Point" type *.gpx files if you already have a route built in Google Maps.

    I know that the Rider series from TomTom will handle the <rte> files. Am hoping your 42 will as well.

    Let us know what you discover as you go.
     
    canderson, Jun 19, 2019
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  12. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    Sorry, but it's all 'Latin' for me:

    euh.. how can I know that I should have created such file (an how did I create it, and on what should I create it: on my divice or on TomTomMydrive? ?

    Does this mean that you think I made a route on my device and synct it with MyDriveTomTom?
    (actually I made a route on TomTomMydrive and sinced it >>> my device...

    I don't use Google Maps to build my routes, till now I uses TomTomMydrive to built them and than want to copy the routes to my devices (WITH viapoints - but this fails)

    sorry, but till now 'I don't go anywhere' ... :(
     
    Gilbert Di, Jun 19, 2019
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  13. Gilbert Di

    canderson Moderator

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    The route file is created, as noted, by a 3rd party app or web site. Pointed you to a couple of likely links.

    No, and again, you don't make the route on your device. Besides, it's a lot easier to do it on a PC!

    Note that I did not recommend attempting to use MyDrive Web as your route building tool. It doesn't know how to build the kind of file we want. As noted in my first post: "MyDrive only creates and exports *.gpx files with lots of track points <trkpt>".

    What is unclear to me at the moment is what MyDrive Web will do with an upload attempt of an <rte> file *.gpx file. I do know there was some mechanism for it previously since all of the Rider model motorcycle fans are using <rte> files in some manner or another, as opposed to tracks.
     
    canderson, Jun 20, 2019
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  14. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    Do I understand you well? (sorry that I didn't always understand well what you ment - my native language isn't English but Dutch)

    1 TomTomMydrive.com isn't the right way to prepare/make a route
    (And that surprises me, because you would expect something else from a program with its own site, right? :()

    2 So I'd better use a thirt-party programm as Tyre and import the Tyre-files in my device - right?

    3
    This means: build a route in GM, than create a pnt-file by conversing it by Mapstogpx and then import it in my device.
    Mmm... it's a long way.
    I thought it would be easier:
    - build a route (without waypoints) on my device
    - make the diffents waypoints as 'Places' on TomTomMyDrive, import those places on my device
    - add those places one for one by selecting them as waypoint in the route.
    Yes? (or no? :))

    That way I don't have to use my device for searching the diffent waypoints - as said: its easier on PC.

    (thx for helping me and I begin to understand dat rte means route and trk means track :))
     
    Gilbert Di, Jun 20, 2019
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  15. Gilbert Di

    canderson Moderator

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    Ah, sorry. Those are the abbreviations that are used in the *.gpx files (it's all xml) to identify which kind of data it is -- waypoint, route or track.

    What concerns me at the moment is whether the MyDrive Web interface is still willing to accept <rte> style *.gpx files.
     
    canderson, Jun 21, 2019
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  16. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    This makes me frown about TomTom:

    ain't Tomtom able to make the software thàt way, that a route, made by TomTomMydrive, can be saved as a route on the devices ? ? :confused: :confused: :confused:
    (till now, I suppose that they are able to manage their own software ? ?)

    ( And what is the point of making such routes on PC - if they can't be used on the devices ???)
     
    Gilbert Di, Jun 21, 2019
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  17. Gilbert Di

    canderson Moderator

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    Yes, we have all been frowning for quite some time. It does not seem right that users should have to find 3rd party tools to do some of these basic things. It used to be possible to create itinerary files (*.itn) for a TomTom device on the unit or with an easy 3rd party tool, but that was 2 generations ago.
     
    canderson, Jun 21, 2019
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  18. Gilbert Di

    Gilbert Di

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    (do you know:) Are they working on it or 'we have to learn to live with it' ? ?

    (it's not a point of honor for TomTom....)
     
    Gilbert Di, Jun 21, 2019
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  19. Gilbert Di

    canderson Moderator

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    Not sure. What I need to do is locate and fire up an old tool to see how easy/hard it is these days. I haven't composed a 'route' file in a while, nor tried to upload it to the web site.
     
    canderson, Jun 22, 2019
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  20. Gilbert Di

    canderson Moderator

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    OK. Have looked into this further, and there is presently no mechanism for moving a waypoint/route file to a Start 42. Bummer. They're still supporting this feature ONLY for the Rider 'motorcycle' units.

    Here's what I've done in the past to try to get at least a little bit of help with this kind of problem.

    If you create a full set of points of interest along your route, these can be saved to a POI (*.ov2) file, and this CAN be sent using MyDrive Web to your device. The file will appear in your MyPlaces in your device. As long as your list isn't really long, it's a manageable solution.

    The key to making this useful is to force your points to appear in order. So let's say you have two dozen points you wish to visit along a route. If you create your POI file so that you have named your points as 01-someplace, 02-someplace else, 03-yet another place ....23-next to the last place, 24-the last place, then your points will appear in the POI list in the sequence in which you wish to travel to them. You can set up as many as five at a time for driving just by adding them (in reverse order) to your current route. So you might start by selecting 05-the fifth place from your list, then selecting 04-the fourth place (add to current route) and 03 and 02 and back to 01-someplace. That route would take you to 01-xxx 02-xxx 03-xxx 04-xxx and 05-xxx in sequence.

    Then you could start a new route with 5 more from 06 to 10.
     
    canderson, Jun 22, 2019
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