Official Road Names

Discussion in 'General TomTom Discussion' started by nomenclator, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    Anyone know how I find the official road name for a road? There is a road near me that has inconsistant signs. In one spot the sign will say Nichols Road, in another it will say Old Nichols Road, then down the road it will say Nichols Road again. Both maps.google.com and routes.tomtom.com have similar problems, labeling the road alternately Nichols and Old Nichols. So does the printed Hagstrom's map that I bought locally. Same with maps.yahoo.com. And same with my TT device with a North America P map. On routes.tomtom.com, very often if you zoom in you get one name, zoom out an get another.

    If I use "show maps" on my TT, and tap various areas on the road, I get, following the whole road from N to S, a few miles of Nichols, a few hundred yards of Old Nichols, a few hundred yards of Nichols, and then few miles of Old Nichols again. I'd really like to know what local government agency is responsible for the names, and what the actual names are.

    None of the maps seem to agree with any other maps, as to where Nichols is and where Old Nichols is.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 23, 2010
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  2. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    Depending on how you zoom in or out, with maps.google.com you get alternation of Nichols, Old Nichols, and even Nicholl's (2 L's). Where one name starts and another ends, is inconsistant, from zoom level to zoom level, and time to time. Almost as if any spot on the road is being randomly called either Nichols, Old Nichols, or Nicholl's. It is really weird.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 23, 2010
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  3. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    This is Nichols Road in Ronkonkoma, West of the Lake Ronkonkoma. There is another road, East of the lake, called Nicholls Road (with 2 L's), consistantly. Yes it is also called County Road 97, but this is apparently a consequence of there being 2 naming systems, an alphanumeric system (consisting of names such as Main Street and 3rd Avenue) and a numeric system (consisting of names such as State Road 32, and County Road 45). The existence of these 2 naming systems does not explain why the road to the west of the lake, has 2 or 3 different alphabetic names.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 23, 2010
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  4. nomenclator

    canderson Moderator

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    If it's a public road, the only people who can declare a particular name to be "official" are the ones working for the government agency responsible for the roads in that area -- e.g., if it is a county road, you need to check with the county. Whatever they call it on their map is as official as it gets.
     
    canderson, Aug 24, 2010
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  5. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    I think it's a county road. But it may be a road that is managed by the "township," or it could be a state road. I'm not sure. I don't know how to find out.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  6. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    I haven't a clue how to figure out which government agency is responsible for the road. It could be federal, state, county, township, or village. Or one level of gov could be responsible for one section, and another level for another section. Without knowing how surveyors identify exactly each portion of the road, I wouldn't know how to figure out where one section ends and another begins, other than by lattitude and longitude. If TT, Hagstrom, and google all have a confusion of name, expecting me to figure out the facts seems unlikely - they all have far more map making expertise than I do. I am reticent about just sending my own opinion of what to name the road, to TT's map share, making the decision myself without consulting the appropriate authority. But most certainly allowing it to remain Old Nichols for a few miles, become Nichols for only a few hundred feet, turn into O.N. again for another few hundredfeet, then Nichols for a few miles, seems like a poor idea. It ought to be either Old Nichols or Nichols for the whole length, or alternatively have one name at the North end and another at the South, without changing back and forth every few hundred feet.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  7. nomenclator

    rk911

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    it won't be a federal road since it's not an interstate and you didn't mention any US Route information. it could be a state route but i would start at the bottom of the ladder and work my way up. call your local town or village street department or if you in an unicorporated area, your township or county road department. this is probably a case where some but not all of the old street signs were replaced with new signs or where the old road was replaced with a new road. that happened down in rural SE missouri when i was a kid. the old 'T' road curved back and forth like a rattlesnake. it was straightened out and was renamed the 'New T' road. the 'Old T' road still existed as people lived on it.

    why is this an issue in the first place? just curious.
     
    rk911, Aug 24, 2010
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  8. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    There was some reason why I thought it was important to fix the names, but I forgot. At any rate, I noticed that TT divides the road into 2 sections, the ONR section, and the NR section, but that the sections are discontiguous. It may be that North of a road A, the correct designation is NR, and South of road A, the correct designation is ONR, however if I click on a segment, to highlight it, that is South of road A, that is currently, for the sake of argument, incorrectly named NR, the discontiguous segment North of road A, that for the sake of argument is correctly named NR, will also be highlighted, thus making it impossible to change the incorrectly labeled part of the road, without also changing the correctly labeled part of the road. (Since you have to change the entire section that becomes highlighted).
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  9. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    I do remember that there is a nearby road named Nicholl's Road (with 2 L's ) and that whenever I walk down Old Nichols Road (or Nichols Road), people are asking me how far up the road, some place is, that is actually up Nicholls Road. They are on the wrong road. If Nichols Road and Old Nichols Road, had a single name, Old Nichols Road, from end to end, it would avoid a lot of confusion for people. I could tell them they are on Old Nichols Road, and not on Nicholls Road, instead of having to tell them, on certain part of the road but not others, that they are on Nichols Road, and not on Nicholls Road.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  10. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    If the road had one name from end to end, it would be easy to correct its name, just click on any segment that is incorrectly labled, and change that segment and all the other discontiguous segments with the same wrong name - to the correct name. There seems to be no way to mark off segments of a road, and name some marked segments one thing, and some marked segments another thing.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  11. nomenclator

    rk911

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    does the TT correctly navigate to addresses on any section of that road? are the house numbers duplicated from one section to the next? we have a road near where we live now (Illinois Rt 83). that road passes through Elmhurst, then Villa Park and then back into Elmhurst. unfortunately, there are duplicated address numbers in the Villa Park section. made it very difficult for police/fire dispatchers to send the correct department when needed. if you *don't* have that kind of situation *and* the TT can find it's way correctly then i wouldn't worry about it.
     
    rk911, Aug 24, 2010
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  12. nomenclator

    canderson Moderator

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    You may find this easier to do with Home and your mouse than the front panel of your TomTom, but it often is possible to select road segments when making a map correction.

    Many times I will start to make a map correction of this sort, and Home (or the TomTom) will add the green line to a considerable portion of road - far more than I had in mind - when I "touch" the road area in question. However, I've found that the road is often segmented internally, and by starting at the ends, I can deselect all the bits I don't want, causing the green line to go away for those segments. For the most part, they seem to segment between major intersections, although not consistently.

    Have you played with that at all?
     
    canderson, Aug 24, 2010
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  13. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    The house numbers are treated as if it were only one road. However North of Townline Road, the numbers go from 1 to 299, in a Northward direction, and South of Townline Road, they go from 400 to 1299, in a Southward direction. Nichols Rd - Old Nichols Road itself, is a road that divides one town from another, different towns, depending on where you are.

    The problem though, is that if you key in 780 Old Nichols Rd, Ronkonkoma, or 780 Old Nichols Rd, Hauppauge (the road divides Hauppauge on the West from Ronkonkoma on the East, at that point), TT won't find it, because it is on the section, only a few hundred feet long, from Terry Rd to Brandon Crest Court, that is labeled Nichols Rd, on the TT. It says "house number not found, nearest available number ..." North of that very short section, going from numbers 739 and down, the road is labeled Old Nichols. South of that very short section, going from numbers 800 and up, the road is again labeled Old Nichols. But you have to key in 780 Nichols Rd, Ronkonkoma, or 780 Nichols Rd, Hauppauge, into the TT, to find that house number. Only numbers 740 to 779, need to be keyed in as Nichols Rd, for TT to find them. The numbers above an below need to be keyed in as Old Nichols Rd.

    On another note, either Hauppauge or Ronkonkoma will do. The TT doesn't care if the number is actually in Hauppague, if you key it in as Ronkonkoma, it will find it - at the same exact spot. But that is another problem, if it is a problem.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  14. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    I meant that the house numbers - in actuality - are treated as if it is only one road. It is only whether the numbers are N or S of Townline Rd, that determines which direction they ascend in.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  15. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    Haven't tried it in TT Home yet.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  16. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    OK, you get an opportunity to change smaller segments, after you select a larger segment, and press "done." You are prompted to further edit segments.

    I went ahead and changed the area from Brandon Crest Court to Terry Road, from Nichols, to Old Nichols. Now, in the maps section, if I press on the South segment of the Road, that section is included with Old Nichols Rd (made red), instead of being left white. however if I tap on the North section of the road, that section is also included with Nichols Rd - made red. So now it is ambiguously either Nichols or Old Nichols, depending upon where you tap.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  17. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    The whole thing is working screwy now. I change one section from Nichols to Old Nichols, and an adjacent section of Old Nichols gets changed to Nichols.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  18. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    I just changed the whole damn thing to Old Nichols. That seems to have worked. Although I'm not sure if the northern part of the road is correctly named now, or not. I changed it to work with map share, too. Let TT's mapshare department try and confirm it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  19. nomenclator

    nomenclator

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    Now Find works to find either 780 Old Nichols, or 780 Nichols.
     
    nomenclator, Aug 24, 2010
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  20. nomenclator

    Tim25

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    The easiest way of finding the "official" names is to find the local county GIS office. I found your road on the map...found it to be in Suffolk County...and searched for the county GIS office. I found their site at Land Information iMap

    After zooming in and looking at the area, I found that north of "Long Island Motor Pkwy" your street is ONLY named Nichols Rd. South of this intersection, the street is only named "Old Nichols Rd" until just before "Veterans Memorial Hwy"...one block before reaching this Hwy...at the intersection with "Split Cedar Dr" the road reverts back to "Nichols Dr" for the one block until reaching Veterans Memorial Hwy....odd, but that is what is in the Suffolk County GIS site.

    Based on that...at the intersection point with Split Cedar Dr, I submitted the following error report to Google Maps:

    From Suffolk County GIS: Land Information iMap

    The short road segment from this point to the SW, just the the next intersection, is listed as Nichols Rd, not Nicholls Rd.

    From this point to the NE...all the way up to 40.817414,-73.154229 (County Rd 67 Long Island Motor Pkwy) the road is ONLY named "Old Nichols Rd".

    North of 40.817414,-73.154229 (County Rd 67 Long Island Motor Pkwy)… to the end of the road, the road is only named Nichols Rd.



    TomTom/Tele Atlas seem to be correct in my 855 map at the intersection with Veterans ...but doesn't seem to correctly make the transition from Old Nichols to Nicholas aroud the Long Island Motor Pkwy and north
     
    Tim25, Sep 12, 2010
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