XL 430S mis-pronounces my city

[Ken M]

My XL430S mis-pronounces my city name.
It's Eugene, like YOU-GENE, or YOU-JEAN
Tom Tom says "YA-ZHEN" (kind of a weird French type pronunciation).
Is there a way to fix this?

Thanks, Ken

 

[Ken M]

Mistake, I meant XL340S (not 430S).
-Ken

 

[dhn]

You can try renaming the cphoneme.dat file (in your map folder) to cphoneme.old and see if that helps. Use Explorer.

 

[Ken M]

Could you explain the purpose of this file? And why Tom Tom would continue to work correctly or even better without it?

Thanks, Ken

 

[dhn]

It's a hint file for the computer voices as to how to pronounce things. Sometimes it's pretty close, other times, it's laughable.

When you rename it, the computer voices 'fall back' on other files for pronounciation and sometimes they are better.

It's supermod mvl who first figured out this potential solution.

 

[RGold]

When I removed this file from my XXL550 I got wrong pronunciation:

SW129TH AVE = Software 129TH AVE so it's not the ultimate solution.

I gave up on TTS and I use computer voice. The device is reading the full names from highway signs makes it very annoying.

 

[canderson]

My XL430S mis-pronounces my city name.
It's Eugene, like YOU-GENE, or YOU-JEAN
Tom Tom says "YA-ZHEN" (kind of a weird French type pronunciation).
Is there a way to fix this?

Thanks, Ken

To be fair, you guys pronounce it YOU-jean (emphasis on 1st syllable), unlike any other pronunciation of that name for a person or town you'll encounter anywhere. The odds of TomTom having gotten that one right were 1 in zero. So renaming the file may clean it up a bit, but if you get the emphasis right, it will have been a complete accident.

After renaming the cphoneme file, you can then make edits to other files in an attempt to "override" any other pronunciation with one of your own. There's a thread here that suggests ways to do that:

https://www.tomtomforums.com/general-tomtom-discussion/21171-how-fix-poor-tts-pronunciation.html

I'm attaching my discoveries about how to make some of the sounds again to this message...

 

[Ken M]

To be fair, you guys pronounce it YOU-jean (emphasis on 1st syllable), unlike any other pronunciation of that name for a person or town you'll encounter anywhere. The odds of TomTom having gotten that one right were 1 in zero. So renaming the file may clean it up a bit, but if you get the emphasis right, it will have been a complete accident.

No it's not that the computer voice simply puts the emphasis on the wrong syllable. As I said It's not even close to sounding like YOU-GENE, Again, as I said it sounds like a french person saying YA -ZHEN.

I don't care where the emphasis is placed on YOU-GENE. Here is ORY-GONE we say it both ways. I just want it to sound like an english speaking person is saying it.

I'll check out the links you provided.

Thanks

 

[canderson]

No it's not that the computer voice simply puts the emphasis on the wrong syllable.

Just pulling your chain, Ken. Was noting that even if you got the thing to use the right sounds, I'd have laid big odds against it getting the emphasis the way you folks do it there up in the Willamette "will-AM-et" Valley

I've got one similar nearby - close enough that although it's not "my" town, it is the name on one of the exits off the interstate that takes me home. The town on the sign is Lyons.

Ever since I bought my original 720, I've used whatever version of the Susan voice Loquendo is peddling at the time on that and subsequent units. For the most part, she does pretty well, but every TomTom I've had insists on pronouncing this town "EL-yawn". Yup. Emphasis first syllable, letter L. Second syllable "yawn".

OK ... so the local yokels pronounce it like "lions". They get -1 as well. But "EL-yawn"?

Have tried turn on foreign pronunciation. No change.

Susan is now known by those who have heard this as "The Butcher of Lyons". I'd considered renaming her "Claus", but her voice is to sexy.

 

[rustybirman99]

Ken - (as others have written in some of those enunciation forums) Have you gone into the .lex file added a line and tested the pronunciation ? It works on most names for me but I have to get it just right. try "Eugene" = "you jean". You may have to set it also in lower case e as "eugene" = "you jean". See if that helps.
You could also put a comma between the words to have it pronounced slower as "you, jean". If still not good enough, try other ideas. I did it with a nice long Native American street name by me, and Susan says it very nicely.
I would try "Lyons" = "Lie onz"
I don't know why WE have to correct these, can't TT work it out a little better. Maybe because of forums like this, that is the reason TT doesn't have to do anything?

 

[canderson]

try "Eugene" = "you jean". You may have to set it also in lower case e as "eugene" = "you jean". See if that helps.
You could also put a comma between the words to have it pronounced slower as "you, jean".

I'd try it this way instead to assure a slight lengthening of the first syllable and the accent there (so the ` and : are important, don't lose them!):

"Eugene" = "\f@-`j-u:-Dg-i-n"

 

[rustybirman99]

"Eugene" = "\f@-`j-u:-Dg-i-n"
canderson, I saw some words written like yours in the .lex file and wondered where you understood how TT set those enunciations up ? It seemed easier to do it the way I saw (and followed) some others in a different part of this forum. Is there somewhere I could pick up how you did your phrasing?

 

[canderson]

"Eugene" = "\f@-`j-u:-Dg-i-n"
canderson, I saw some words written like yours in the .lex file and wondered where you understood how TT set those enunciations up ? It seemed easier to do it the way I saw (and followed) some others in a different part of this forum. Is there somewhere I could pick up how you did your phrasing?

Strictly a matter of observation of the files and some trial and error. I'm going with the pure phonetics in order to control the result more precisely. The little chicken scratch before the "j" is what places emphasis on that phoneme. Given the peculiar pronunciation of the name up there, that's necessary to avoid having the TomTom place it anywhere else - in this case, the 2nd syllable. The colon after the "u" is to lengthen the sound of that vowel.

I've posted this a couple of times before, and I guess I should have updated it when I found a few new tricks, but didn't. In any case, here it is again. The starting "\f@-" is what keys the unit that a phonetic (fonetic, if you're from Loquendo in Italy?) "phrase" follows.

The list is in one sense quite incomplete -- when creating new dipthongs, you need to combine various bits and pieces from the list. It's certainly not comprehensive in that regard. By this I mean that sounds like the "Eu" in "Eugene" are not made up of single sounds - they're made up of multiple sounds. To get the "Eu" sound, which translates to the j-u that you saw, you need that starting "long E" sound followed by a "you" sound.

Back in the VERY early days of computer generated speech and text to speech, I got a lot of practice fooling around with making English sounds, so I don't get fooled by what's really behind what we say too often.

I use the phonemes because I've been snookered by my TomTom WAY too many times trying to set up custom alerts for POIs. One of the goofy ones was setting up a decent sounding rendition of "geocache alert". On previous versions of Loquendo, just typing in 'words' like "Jeeyo Cash Alert" sounded OK. On the new version, the "Jeeyo" really bites. Just sounds totally strange. With more recent Loquendo files, I wound up with something quite different ... "Jee Oh Cash Alert". That small change made all the difference. Shame they won't let you enter phonemes there!

So when I can do direct phonetic control, I do it.

[FONT=Courier New]schwa ("eh" sound) HEh
a  (wave)          HEI
a  (back)          Ae
a  (ah)            Ah
a  (amble)         Aa
au (nauseus)       Oa
b  (bib)           b
c  (card)          kh
c  (cent)          s
ch (church)        T$
ck (jack)          kh
d  (dog)           d
e  (e-mail)        i
e  (get)           E
f  (fat)           f
g  (get)           g
g  (dodge)         Dg
h  (hit)           h
i  (fine)          HAI
i  (bit)           I
j  (job)           Dg
k  (wake)          kh
l  (like)          l
ul (fiddle)        Hl
m  (man)           m
n  (not)           n
o  (over)          OU
o  (shot)          Aa
o  (boss)          Oa
o  (done)          Ah
oi (avoid)         OI
or (work)          OR
oo (food)          u
oo (brook)         U
p  (pun)[init]     ph
qu (quick)         kh-w
r  (read)          Hr
s  (test)          s
s  (roads)[fin]    z
s  (Asia)          $
t  (test)          th
t  (eventual)      T$
tch(witch)         T$
th (faith)         Th
u  (fuse)          j-u
u  (institute)     u
v  (valve)         v
w  (wave)          w
x  (fox)           kh-s
x  (exist)         g-z
y  (yuck)          j
y  (duly)          i
z  (zinc)          z
z  (azure)         Zg[/FONT]

lengthen vowel  = follow with ":"
syllable accent = add "`" prior to phoneme

 

[rustybirman99]

Thanks canderson for the short lesson and the long (for me) table to test myself. I'm still confused but you gave me a good starting point to improve some of the names I couldn't the other basic way.

 

[Ken M]

I'd try it this way instead to assure a slight lengthening of the first syllable and the accent there (so the ` and : are important, don't lose them!):

"Eugene" = "\f@-`j-u:-Dg-i-n"

Exactly where in the .lex file do I insert this?

Thanks, Ken

 

[dhn]

Probably in the list where it (alphabetically) would go. It (the lex file) can be opened and edited with Notepad.

 

[Ken M]

Yes I know it can be opened and edited with Notepad. That's how I looked at it, and was unsure where to place the additional text.
Would like to know for sure ... anyone else have advice?

Thanks, Ken

 

[canderson]

Yes I know it can be opened and edited with Notepad. That's how I looked at it, and was unsure where to place the additional text.
Would like to know for sure ... anyone else have advice?

Thanks, Ken

Anywhere in the body of the list should do. Guess I'd toss it in per the alphabet.

 

[Ken M]

Ok, I put "Eugene" = "\f@-`j-u:-Dg-i-n" in the .lex file, took a drive out of town, turned on the GPS for directions and it still mis-pronounces "Eugene", same as before.
Any more advice? Thanks!

 

[canderson]

Listened to that clip .. My experience of the local pronunciation is that they place the emphasis on the first syllable, not the last. Sounds strange to my midwestern ears, I can tell you.

To the OP - I'm beginning to wonder if that specific sort of change can still be made with version 7 voices. With version 6 voices, the additional file called EnglishUs6.9.lex was available, and that's where I used to make all of my tweaks for this kind of change. The roadnr.English[etc] files appear to be used only for managing the names of abbreviated road data, and isn't consulted for anything else.

Does anyone else see on their own system an equivalent file in a Version 7 list of files that might be called EnglishUs7.0.lex anywhere?