Western Canada? Watch Out!

[Chris R]

Hi,

Just bought a US/Canada TomTom One and I am NOT impressed.
I clicked 'update map' but got messages that my map was 'out of date and NOT supported by MapShare Technology'. It is the December 2006 version. Software is updated successfully. The map, I am stuck with. I understand a new map will come out next month but I am not holding my breath that they have updated Western Canada.

TomTom works not bad in the city but is absolutely NOT TO BE TRUSTED in rural Canada. According to Support I do not have MapShare (yet???) and cannot benefit from updates or pass them on.

All my routes and city streets are in Google, Yahoo and Mapquest correctly computed. Friends with a Garmin do not seem to have this problem.

TomTom navigated me unerringly up USA route I5 to an off road Marina on the coast of upstate Washington, and from there to Vancouver BC. I was impressed, but outside the cities in Canada it gets lost.

The 100-year old roads in the city of Vancouver's parks are not there. Try to drive from Vancouver to Toronto and the fastest route given is through the USA. Fair enough maybe. Request it please go through Winnipeg in Manitoba (Canada) and it comes back 'No Route'. Like there is one route and only one route in Canada over the lakehead - the trans Canada route #1 from Vancouver to Toronto via Calgary and Winnipeg and Thunder Bay non stop and quite fast. Duh?

Does it still have the Trans Canada closed with an avalanche just east of Revelstoke last winter, or a rockslide last summer? Are the Indians still blockading east of Thunder Bay?

Drive from Vancouver to Calgary and it routed me via the trans Canada Fraser Canyon route#1. Seemed to have problem with the Coquihalla Freeway Route#5, one of only three alternatives and the fastest and shortest route by nearly two hours. Then it routes me north from Kamloops over the Yellowhead Highway to Jasper and then south instead of directly through the Rocky Mountains on Route#1. I request an alternative and it routes me south through Spokane in the USA, both routes adding an extra day and several hundred kilometers to my route. There ARE only three alternatives.

Should you drive north on the Yellowhead towards Yellowknife in the winter and take a wrong turn, it could be several hundred km to the next gas station if at all and likely a dead end in an unploughed snow drift. It can go below -40 degrees in the winter. I have driven that route but would not dare with a TomTom.

TomTom had me correctly on TransCanada Route #1 as I drove east from Vancouver to Calgary, the shortest route. It just kept insisting that I take a 500km? detour north from Kamloops.

Driving back on the shortest route, the trans Canada #1 through Glacier National Park towards Golden and it kept telling me to do a U turn and drive 100km back to Alberta, then North to Jasper again adding several hundred more km and a whole extra day to my journey or alternatively south across the border to Spokane USA again.

In Alberta it could not correctly change from Pacific Standard Time to Mountain Time.

I was often more than 200metres from the highway or not even on it. Kananaskis Village, its hotels, roads and winter ski resorts where the Olympics took place many years ago now is on the map as a label with no roads. Most of the old streets of Valemont BC are missing, a good chunk of service roads in Merrit BC by the Coquihala Freeway seem missing and many of the freeway exits were labeled with no service ramps. The western ramps back to Highway #1 were all wrong.

When there is only one route from Vancouver to Toronto, or only three possible routes to Calgary, and TomTom cannot find them, something is badly wrong.

My brother has no problems using a similar unit in London England so I assume the problem is the map, not the instrument, but until this is fixed or you can update your ONE map online, I recommend you print off your route using google or Yahoo or Mapquest and use that. Otherwise you might just end up digging a snow cave.

 

[cgigate]

You might need to try North America map!
it is pretty good in western Canada (BC, Alberta)

 

[46jimbo]

No, it's not better. I have North America v6.75 and it makes the same errors. The routing from Calgary to Vancouver is totally nuts. And trying to navigate from Vancouver to Toronto via Winnipeg also comes up with a 'No route found' message.

This is really pretty shoddy work on the part of TeleAtlas. I love my TT One, but I think that more effort has to be put into the Canadian maps.

 

[cgigate]

Canada is too big!

 

[GAW]

You don't have to be in Canada to get some strange and even dangerous routing from a TomTom. I have 910 with latest maps and system updates. With the old N. American maps, it took me off on some unimproved roads (actually became trails) new Yosemite Park. I though it was cured with the update maps and versions, but it did it again in the western Sierra's (near Quincy, CA). a few days ago

It was set for "fastest Route", but it still managed to take me down an initially paved road that became a rutted muddy trail before I got through it. It also ignored a parallel 1/4 mile away fully paved and maintained road (it showed it on the map - but ignored it in the routing.

All the above are considered fire access trails - and should be not selected by TomTom for any routing (unless it had an off-road feature that was selected).

 

[robvann]

Eastern Canada - New version is better

I travel a lot through Atlantic Canada, and found similar frustrations when I was using TomTom One, Version 2. I recently upgraded to TomTom One, Version 3, and have found the maps have indeed been improved
The TransCanada Highway through New Brunswick used to be off by about 200Meters, so it was annoying because it kept trying to route me in along the old slow highway for somereason. I confirmed on today's trip that this all works great now!!!
The Map Version in mine (which is compatible with MapShare) is v705.1481

Just for fun I tried the Vancouver to Toronto route you described and alas mine produces the same result you described. (goes thru USA, and can't force the route to go through Winnipeg)

I am really "hoping" that the MapShare technology will solve many of these problems. I think of it as the Wikipedia model, where the users will correct the errors!

 

[cgigate]

I travel a lot through Atlantic Canada, and found similar frustrations when I was using TomTom One, Version 2. I recently upgraded to TomTom One, Version 3, and have found the maps have indeed been improved

TomTom One V2 Vs TomTom One, Version 3, no differences for navigation.
the difference might be map versions.

 

[Canuck]

I am also quite disappointed with the quality of the maps for Canada. My home street isn't found even though its been here 10+ years. And driving in the lower mainland of British Columbia there are a lot of incorrect streets or streets it does not know about even though they have been there over a decade.

 

[matt74]

The Problem i found is going from toronto to Chicago and it wants to take me through detroit which is an 1 1/2 hours longer then going through Sarnia, So i called tomtom support and they said "Oh when it does the routing it does not take in the fact that detroit has slower speed limit and will take more time" and i was like thats stupid i asked for quickest way not shortest way and well she had nothing to say about that , so i wrote to them with no reply yet. so its sounding that this problem is the same thing that you all are having tomtom does not use speed limits as a way of finding the quickest way from point A to point B

Matt

 

[46jimbo]

The Problem i found is going from toronto to Chicago and it wants to take me through detroit which is an 1 1/2 hours longer then going through Sarnia

This is strange, because my TomTom One routes me thru Sarnia (on map v6.65). What is your map version?

 

[Chris R]

TomTom seems to use an average speed of 70km/hr regardless of the highway I found as I clipped along at 110.

I saw my map feedback queries posted as 'solved' including the one that was just 5 seconds old so one may wonder just what they do with them.

TomTom has just started an advertising blitz on Vancouver AM radio boasting of the most up to date maps, and how you can drive 'with confidence' with TomTom. I included this point in my last MAP feedback suggesting they put this campaign on hold until they fix their most embarassing Canadian issues or face a PR debacle. I had requested an email reply but have heard nothing from them. From their site - 'Tele Atlas is the world’s most trusted source of digital map data and dynamic content'. It does seem to be a better business directory than road directory.

We need better turn around and access to map fixes than once a year for the ONE or is it already obsolete? . Support hinted that MapShare may be extended to the ONE but not when.

My map version is #665.

 

[Canuck]

The thing with the maps is that if you go to the TeleAtlas website and look at their maps, they are very up to date compared to what we are seeing actually being used on the TT units.

 

[matt74]

I am using 6.65 also but i think its a bad load, because when i am down town toronto my tomtom map will do 180's but i have full signal strength. So i am going to reload it today and hope that will work.

Matt

 

[46jimbo]

I am using 6.65 also but i think its a bad load, because when i am down town toronto my tomtom map will do 180's but i have full signal strength. So i am going to reload it today and hope that will work.

The problem is not with your map. Rather, it is the tall buildings interfering with the GPS signal, both blocking or causing confusing reflections. Any GPS unit has difficulties in these sorts of situations.

 

[kenhamer]

Hi,

Just bought a US/Canada TomTom One and I am NOT impressed.
I clicked 'update map' but got messages that my map was 'out of date and NOT supported by MapShare Technology'. It is the December 2006 version. Software is updated successfully. The map, I am stuck with. I understand a new map will come out next month but I am not holding my breath that they have updated Western Canada.

TomTom works not bad in the city but is absolutely NOT TO BE TRUSTED in rural Canada. According to Support I do not have MapShare (yet???) and cannot benefit from updates or pass them on.

How very strange. I just got mine last Friday, and am super impressed with it. Until now, I've been using MS Streets and Trips, MS Autoroute in Europe, and a lame UBD bitmap system in Australia. I've always kind of looked down at the stand alone units, but I've had my comeuppance. ('Course being that I paid only $169 for a "road tested" but otherwise new and complete unit -- factory refurbished, if you will -- perhaps I wasn't as put out by the few faults I found as I might have been had I paid $400 for it.)

I suppose if you're expecting an absolutely flawless representation of the entire survace of the continent you're bound to be disappointed. But in my experience with Delorme and MS software, as well as "other" systems, I've learned to never put absolute faith in navigation systems of any type. (I feel I can say that with some authority as I install navigation systems on machines like these: HSV-X1, CVN-74, and ACPB 84.)

Not withstanding that I too have seen some errors in the map data, I'm still impressed. Over the weekend, I "tested" the unit against my MS Streets and Trips 2007. Two areas where it really shon (at least in comparison to S&T) were in the Stave lake area (rural, pushing wild) and the Cape Horn interchange.

Stave Lake is the edge of the wilderness, and S&T not only omits a few roads, it omits essentially all road names in the area, defaulting to "local road." My TT One on the other hand showed all of the roads, and all with the correct name.

For those who don't live in the area, the Cape Horn interchange is where the Trans-Canada Highway/Port Mann Bridge, Lougheed Highway, Mary Hill Bypass, United Boulevard and several lesser roads all come together in what is best described as an orgy of snakes. I spent an hour looping back and forth through the interchange, never missed a beat. Every turn, loop, switchback, and dead end was accurately shown.

Otherwise, roads that had been changed in the last few months were not shown accurately (near the Airport) but others changed perhaps 6-12 months ago were (Queensborough.) Strangely, many roads that used to lead down to the Port of Vancouver still show as open, even though essentially all of them have been closed off in the post 9/11 paranoia.

All my routes and city streets are in Google, Yahoo and Mapquest correctly computed. Friends with a Garmin do not seem to have this problem.

TomTom navigated me unerringly up USA route I5 to an off road Marina on the coast of upstate Washington, and from there to Vancouver BC. I was impressed, but outside the cities in Canada it gets lost.

The 100-year old roads in the city of Vancouver's parks are not there.

Haven't checked these yet, but I probably will eventually. I imagine that they might be treated differently by the mapping authorities because they are maintained by the Parks Board, and not the city. That's not an excuse so much as a possible explanation.

Try to drive from Vancouver to Toronto and the fastest route given is through the USA. Fair enough maybe. Request it please go through Winnipeg in Manitoba (Canada) and it comes back 'No Route'. Like there is one route and only one route in Canada over the lakehead - the trans Canada route #1 from Vancouver to Toronto via Calgary and Winnipeg and Thunder Bay non stop and quite fast. Duh?

Well, I mean, like, who'd want to go to either Winnipeg or Toronto? Think of it this way, the machine is doing you a favour, telling you to stay in Lotus Land.

Does it still have the Trans Canada closed with an avalanche just east of Revelstoke last winter, or a rockslide last summer? Are the Indians still blockading east of Thunder Bay?

Drive from Vancouver to Calgary and it routed me via the trans Canada Fraser Canyon route#1. Seemed to have problem with the Coquihalla Freeway Route#5, one of only three alternatives and the fastest and shortest route by nearly two hours. Then it routes me north from Kamloops over the Yellowhead Highway to Jasper and then south instead of directly through the Rocky Mountains on Route#1. I request an alternative and it routes me south through Spokane in the USA, both routes adding an extra day and several hundred kilometers to my route. There ARE only three alternatives.

Seriously, though, while perhaps the unit should route you all the way to T.O., I wouldn't think it much of a problem to put a route in from Vancouver to Winnipeg, and then when approaching the 'Peg, change the destination to Toronto. It's not like you're going to drive non-stop, I wouldn't think.

But experimenting and comparing, I did notice a couple of anomolies. The first is that on the Vancouver to Calgary route, even though it says Highway 1 all the way, if you browse the map, you'll see that at Hope it routes you via Crowsnest (Hwy 3) to the Coquihalla (Hwy 5). That is, it does actually draw the best route, but for some reason thinks it's on Hwy 1 all the way. Comparing the TT One to S&T the route distance is almost identical -- S&T shows 960.5 km, while TT One shows 962 km. The times are wonky, with S&T showing 10:53 and TT One showing 13:06, or more than two hours slower.

I think it's an understood issue with the TT units that they seem to underestimate the speed on highways. Travelling back from Hope I found that the ETAs were based on a speed varying between 70 and 80 kmh, even though I was doing 110 in the 100 zone. Perhaps TT/TeleAtlas think 80k is the maximum speed in Canada.

I imagine that's why there seems to be a preference to route via I-90/94 in WA state as well. One presumes (well, I do, anyway) that the unit knows the interstate speeds are pretty lively. As well, on both the TT and in S&T the legend for the interstates is much thicker and bolder than for the TCH (Hwy 1). As well, except for Stephens and Snoqualmie Passes on I-90, it's probably an easier drive than much of the Trans-Canada through the BC Rockies.

When I first did the Vancouver Winnipeg route, I also got the US routing. But travelling via Calgary, I again got essentially the same distance (2286.9 in S&T vs 2281 on the TT, with times again out of sync at 24:36 vs 33:11.) BUT... here's a hint -- when you route through Calgary you get a message stating "The current route involves unpaved roads. Do you want to avoid the unpaved roads?" Well, it is Saskatchewan, after all.

So it looks like somewhere along the line it thinks the TCH is unpaved. Other than some temporary construction (which S&T seems to be unaware of) I don't think that's been the case since the early 60's. I imagine that "unpaved" roads would figure negatively in the route caclulation, perhaps partly explaining the weird routings.

Should you drive north on the Yellowhead towards Yellowknife in the winter and take a wrong turn, it could be several hundred km to the next gas station if at all and likely a dead end in an unploughed snow drift. It can go below -40 degrees in the winter. I have driven that route but would not dare with a TomTom.

TomTom had me correctly on TransCanada Route #1 as I drove east from Vancouver to Calgary, the shortest route. It just kept insisting that I take a 500km? detour north from Kamloops.

Driving back on the shortest route, the trans Canada #1 through Glacier National Park towards Golden and it kept telling me to do a U turn and drive 100km back to Alberta, then North to Jasper again adding several hundred more km and a whole extra day to my journey or alternatively south across the border to Spokane USA again.

In Alberta it could not correctly change from Pacific Standard Time to Mountain Time.

I was often more than 200metres from the highway or not even on it. Kananaskis Village, its hotels, roads and winter ski resorts where the Olympics took place many years ago now is on the map as a label with no roads. Most of the old streets of Valemont BC are missing, a good chunk of service roads in Merrit BC by the Coquihala Freeway seem missing and many of the freeway exits were labeled with no service ramps. The western ramps back to Highway #1 were all wrong.

When there is only one route from Vancouver to Toronto, or only three possible routes to Calgary, and TomTom cannot find them, something is badly wrong.

My brother has no problems using a similar unit in London England so I assume the problem is the map, not the instrument, but until this is fixed or you can update your ONE map online, I recommend you print off your route using google or Yahoo or Mapquest and use that. Otherwise you might just end up digging a snow cave.

Continued on next post...

 

[kenhamer]

...wow, my first post, and I've already hit the 10K character limit. Scary, eh?



It does sound like it has some problems with long distance routing. Notwithstanding errors in the actual map detail, I wonder if there's something not quite right with the routing engine.

Nevertheless, I still maintain that if you are doing inter-city or -province/state driving, putting in individual daily routes would be more satisfactory. It would be even moreso if the ETA times were correct.

Otherwise, the POIs might be useful. But that's the one area where they seem to fall down (at least in my view.) I've found lot's of POIs for business that have been gone for years (or even decades) and some businesses that have been around for eons not in the POI list. But I've decided I'll fix that problem on my own, by utilizing S&T as an address to lat/long convertor, and then create my own POIs.

For any of it's faults, and particularly given the price I paid for it, I'm still very happy with it.

 

[matt74]

The problem is not with your map. Rather, it is the tall buildings interfering with the GPS signal, both blocking or causing confusing reflections. Any GPS unit has difficulties in these sorts of situations.

I had a Garmin Streetpilot I3 and had no problems with it in the downtown area. Maybe the I3 is less sensative.

Matt