Tom Tom Go Premium X I believe a consumer rights failure/breach

[KDOG]

Hi there,

Is anyone else experiencing the TOM TOM approach to simply ending SIM support for what was Global Maps FOR LIFE and now being told to tether their mobiles to get the service we have already paid for and therefore use our own data and global roaming to simply mirror to the device that we bought with Global Maps for life. With 2G/3G being discontinued this does not preclude TOM TOM from doing the right thing and providing a 5G Sim for our devices, does anyone know of a class action being taken to undo what I believe to be a breach of consumer rights. I have been pushed from pillar to post and keep getting a different reply it's been going on for months. I have asked for the ombudsman's contact details and am simply ignored. My device was top of the range and in mint condition. I paid £259 and have been offered Euro 25. Does anyone else who is/was a loyal TOM TOM client who paid for this service also feel they have been let down. I bought my device specifically to use abroad with Global Maps for life.

 

[GOTO GOSUB]

This sort of question has come up before, and it's a problem with how you (and I for that matter) and TomTom interpret "for life". Is it your life, or that of the working life product ? If TomTom think your product has reached the end of its life (as in support) then they have arguably fulfilled their side of the bargain. I know, it sucks a bit. I feel your pain. But it's not uncommon.

Even if TomTom wanted to offer you 5G support it's not just a matter of replacing the SIM. The radio in your sat-nav is probably only 2G, maybe 3G capable. Putting a SIM in it that is 5G ready doesn't upgrade the physical hardware in your sat-nav. If it it using a modem that pre-dates 5G then you're stuck with whatever it had when it left the factory.

I've got a 5200 that apparently had "lifetime" maps and traffic, and I lost standalone SIM support some time ago now. But I still get free map updates via WiFi and the traffic still works if I connect the sat-nav to my phone using Bluetooth or WiFi. TomTom are still providing me with free content, it's only the delivery method that has changed.

 

[Willy875]

Hi there,

Is anyone else experiencing the TOM TOM approach to simply ending SIM support for what was Global Maps FOR LIFE and now being told to tether their mobiles to get the service we have already paid for and therefore use our own data and global roaming to simply mirror to the device that we bought with Global Maps for life. With 2G/3G being discontinued this does not preclude TOM TOM from doing the right thing and providing a 5G Sim for our devices, does anyone know of a class action being taken to undo what I believe to be a breach of consumer rights. I have been pushed from pillar to post and keep getting a different reply it's been going on for months. I have asked for the ombudsman's contact details and am simply ignored. My device was top of the range and in mint condition. I paid £259 and have been offered Euro 25. Does anyone else who is/was a loyal TOM TOM client who paid for this service also feel they have been let down. I bought my device specifically to use abroad with Global Maps for life.

Hi.
It's your mobile network operator that's shutting down the 2G network. TomTom is not responsible for this 2G shutdown.

Your GPS is not compatible with the 5G network.

 

[KDOG]

I have just posted the thread on the FORUM out of desperation and feel that I am not alone in feeling duped and cast aside.

It shouldn't be this hard to get TOM TOM to provide the service that we have already paid for? I am a reasonable person, but after getting messed about by TOM TOM for some time now, I wanted to hear other consumer's thoughts? I keep getting handed off to someone else and I keep having to start the conversation from scratch, it is a lonely journey but I cannot be the only one feeling this way. I believe that we deserve better support and a better solution. We should be able to receive the service marketed and sold directly by TOM TOM for it's intended use.

To anyone else-Have you experienced the same story? I bought my TOM TOM GO PREMIUM X direct from TOM TOM and as was marketed and sold to by TOM TOM.

Were you also sold Lifetime World Maps? Unlike threads posted I read what is on the tin and I purchased the device without an inferred caveat. My device was top of the range. My my device works perfectly and is in near mint condition.

FACT:
TOM TOM are choosing to turn off a lifetime service, my device is not faulty. This isn't a device failure.
This is service/support failure
TOM TOM are effectively saving whatever it costs to provide data roaming to make our devices function.
I didn't buy a screen mirroring device. I specifically bought a GPS unit to work independent of my Mobile and personal data.

My experience so far:
I have asked to speak with someone in person and continue to be addressed in emails that don’t keep a chain link It’s very impersonal and disrespectful to loyal customers like me who have bought many Tom Tom devices and have been a loyal customer of over 15 years. I am a reasonable person and have asked for a reasonable solution. I have asked for the ombudsman’s details which TOM TOM have ignored and have not supplied. If TOM TOM are not able to do the right thing and provide a 5G SIM, then I am asking them to provide evidence from an independent body overseen by the ombudsman, to confirm that this cannot be retrofitted due to a device in capability and that this is not a cost saving endeavour, if they are unable to do so then I believe this is a breach of our consumer rights.

I have lost faith in TOM TOM's honesty.

Does anyone else feel the same? I am new to this but it is really not cool the way we are being treated. I would not have bought the product otherwise.

 

[Willy875]

@KDOG

Did you read my message above yours?

It's your phone company that's shutting down 2G.
TomTom is not responsible for this 2G shutdown.

 

[Willy875]

@KDOG

For your information: Mobile data usage.

On average, driving for one hour a day during rush hour will use approximately 7 MB of data per month.

 

[Bones28]

I have been with them for many years, I just upgraded to a new unit no knowing they have stoped so much, even the clock at bottom of bar has been discontinued & many other things, navigating through the options I can never find what I want, they probably don’t even exist anymore. This will be the last Tomtom I will ever buy.

 

[KDOG]

This sort of question has come up before, and it's a problem with how you (and I for that matter) and TomTom interpret "for life". Is it your life, or that of the working life product ? If TomTom think your product has reached the end of its life (as in support) then they have arguably fulfilled their side of the bargain. I know, it sucks a bit. I feel your pain. But it's not uncommon.

Even if TomTom wanted to offer you 5G support it's not just a matter of replacing the SIM. The radio in your sat-nav is probably only 2G, maybe 3G capable. Putting a SIM in it that is 5G ready doesn't upgrade the physical hardware in your sat-nav. If it it using a modem that pre-dates 5G then you're stuck with whatever it had when it left the factory.

I've got a 5200 that apparently had "lifetime" maps and traffic, and I lost standalone SIM support some time ago now. But I still get free map updates via WiFi and the traffic still works if I connect the sat-nav to my phone using Bluetooth or WiFi. TomTom are still providing me with free content, it's only the delivery method that has changed.

Thank you for your note. "The radio in your sat-nav is probably only 2G, maybe 3G capable. Putting a SIM in it that is 5G ready doesn't upgrade the physical hardware in your sat-nav. If it it using a modem that pre-dates 5G then you're stuck with whatever it had when it left the factory. "

I am not unreasonable, It's more the fact that these devices were intended, marketed and sold as Global. I am not interpreting, I bought what was sold to me and it was unambiguous in the way it was sold and marketed to me. I did not purchase a screen mirroring device to use my own data. I use the device in multiple countries when I travel, that's the reason for me purchasing it. In order to use it now, I would now need to turn global roaming with my mobile and pay data roaming fees plus run my mobile battery life down. I have used my devices in emergency services where having a fully independent mobile is key. I feel mis sold. TOM TOM could do way better.

 

[KDOG]

@KDOG

For your information: Mobile data usage.

On average, driving for one hour a day during rush hour will use approximately 7 MB of data per month.

Thanks Willy, this all assumes you are static in one location on normal data. Not International data roaming charges when you shouldn't need them. This device is a stand alone, TOM TOM have maps that often hang, are out of date, including road closures, live traffic and that's just in the UK. I put up with it for years and kept coming back as a loyal customer buying more devices and have multiple. It detracts from my central point, Lifetime Maps is misleading, World MAPS updating via GPS now simply doesn't happen if it is relying on my data and my mobile. I also don't drive for just one hour a day in traffic, I drive all the time to many locations I have never been to. I needed what I paid for.

 

[Willy875]

@KDOG
There are no changes to the lifetime map updates.

You can update via your home Wi-Fi.

The integrated SIM cards only allow you to receive real-time traffic and speed camera alerts, nothing more.

 

[Bones28]

In the UK mobile coverage is very poor, if you don’t input your journey from home or a wifi connection you lose traffic multiple times on some journeys.

 

[Willy875]

In the UK mobile coverage is very poor, if you don’t input your journey from home or a wifi connection you lose traffic multiple times on some journeys.

If you record your route from home on your GPS, you will not be able to avoid traffic problems.

 

[GOTO GOSUB]

Regarding mobile data usage, I argued against TomTom's statement on their website about traffic using about 7Mb a month here: https://www.tomtomforums.com/threads/data-usage-tomtom-live-traffic-updates.34957

I don't consider my commute to be unusual these days and I was averaging 37Mb a month. That's still not much, but I can see how this can become a concern if you get stung with roaming fees when abroad. Even then, I would be surprised if anyone on a pay monthly or fixed tariff didn't get some roaming data thrown in.

My first post at the link above is over a year old now so just for fun I've just checked how much credit I've still got on that pre-paid SIM. In the past 13 months I have used £4.97 which at 1p/Mb is 38.2Mb a month.

 

[RobU]

This sort of question has come up before, and it's a problem with how you (and I for that matter) and TomTom interpret "for life". Is it your life, or that of the working life product ? If TomTom think your product has reached the end of its life (as in support) then they have arguably fulfilled their side of the bargain. I know, it sucks a bit. I feel your pain. But it's not uncommon.

Even if TomTom wanted to offer you 5G support it's not just a matter of replacing the SIM. The radio in your sat-nav is probably only 2G, maybe 3G capable. Putting a SIM in it that is 5G ready doesn't upgrade the physical hardware in your sat-nav. If it it using a modem that pre-dates 5G then you're stuck with whatever it had when it left the factory.

I've got a 5200 that apparently had "lifetime" maps and traffic, and I lost standalone SIM support some time ago now. But I still get free map updates via WiFi and the traffic still works if I connect the sat-nav to my phone using Bluetooth or WiFi. TomTom are still providing me with free content, it's only the delivery method that has changed.

If they had said 'lifetime of the device' and stated the period eg 10 years, then might agree with you. However TomTom stated merely 'lifetime', they cannot arbitrarily state the devices life has ended when it is still working. I believe that in a court of law the case against them would be upheld. They sold the product on the basis of a lie and the plaintiff would be entitled to a full refund regardless of how old the device is.

 

[Willy875]

If they had said 'lifetime of the device' and stated the period eg 10 years, then might agree with you. However TomTom stated merely 'lifetime', they cannot arbitrarily state the devices life has ended when it is still working. I believe that in a court of law the case against them would be upheld. They sold the product on the basis of a lie and the plaintiff would be entitled to a full refund regardless of how old the device is.

You can't fault TomTom.

Do you still have lifetime map updates? The answer is yes.

Do you still have lifetime traffic and speed camera alerts on certain models? The answer is also yes.

It's not TomTom that disables 2G.

Do you want to go to court? You'll lose.

 

[GOTO GOSUB]

If they had said 'lifetime of the device' and stated the period eg 10 years, then might agree with you. However TomTom stated merely 'lifetime', they cannot arbitrarily state the devices life has ended when it is still working. I believe that in a court of law the case against them would be upheld. They sold the product on the basis of a lie and the plaintiff would be entitled to a full refund regardless of how old the device is.

As much as I agree with you in the fact that I was not impressed when my sat-nav lost its on-board connectivity, changes by the network operator (Vodafone here in the UK, I believe) are outside of TomTom's control. If your sat-nav requires say 3G but the 3G networks are being turned off, then there is nothing TomTom can do about that. Your sat-nav, if it cannot get 3G, will (should) roll back to 2G but at that point I wonder if any of the network providers are renewing any existing business.

By that I mean if TomTom went to Vodafone some time ago and said that they wanted to connect say 50,000 units over a 5 year period (a rough idea as to a unit's lifespan on my part) and that 5 year period has come to an end, will Vodafone commit themselves to another 5 year term for obsolete technology at a price TomTom is prepared to pay ? TomTom is not getting any more money out of you if you don't buy a new device so TomTom will be taking the hit. I suspect if you went to court with this it would come down to matters outside of TomTom's control, in that a required service is being withdrawn by a third party and you cannot hold TomTom responsible for it.

Could they have handled this better ? Yes, of course. I got an email a few months before my SIM was deactivated in which they offered me a discount on a new device. They didn't say why my standalone data was being removed, but they did point out to me that the traffic updates would continue if I provided my own data and I would continue to get map updates (over WiFi) which I did anyway. So until they pull that, I am still getting "lifetime" maps and traffic as advertised - just not by the same means. It's a grey area and I see your point, but I've been using my own data with my 5200 for over a year since they terminated my onboard data and the sat-nav still works fine and I still get traffic and regular map updates. I also get charging station POI updates which is relatively new and has been added since.

I notice that TomTom no longer sell devices with onboard SIM's, which suggests to me that this business model doesn't work for them any more. If they've killed off that feature for new customers / devices then that's probably their definition of "end of life". They cannot offer you a replacement or like-for-like device so it's not even as if they hope you are going to "upgrade". I suspect that you and I are not their target audience any more, in that most of their users now probably use subscription based mobile phone apps instead of dedicated hardware.

 

[Willy875]

What year was TomTom supposed to release a GPS with a 4G SIM card? It was abandoned.

See their message below for their explanation.

Regarding the 4G SIM, there's a semiconductor shortage, and finding enough isn't easy or is prohibitively expensive compared to competing brands that also need these products.

 

[John Usher]

I have to question what seems to be the standard approach to this issue from Wily875, which repeatedly seems to side with TomTom on this, and I absolutely don't personally agree.

As far as I am concerned, TomTom and the Traffic Service issue *is* with TomTom as the UK still has 2G for some years to come, but they are, I feel, skirting round the issue to let it 'die on the vine'.

Interesting that TomTom offered £25 to write this off - it was also suggested to me that I take a payment, based pro-rata, on the age of my unit, to write off the issue, but I refused and so didn't get a price.

I have tried the first suggested alternative of Bluetooth - it didn't work on my (very new) Android Smartphone. The offered 'solution' is a Factory Reset, which I have yet to try, as TomTom Support simply ignored my question of - If that doesn't work, what then?

'Use Wi-Fi' was the answer, not that they could identify the Bluetooth problem and assist me, even after sending them videos of the fault with a phone that pairs effortlessly on every Bluetooth device I have, inside or outside the car, inc. phone calls and text messages to the Sat Nav! So not a phone fault then, but a Traffic Service fault - on Bluetooth!

The other offered alternative - to pair with the Wi-Fi on my smartphone for Traffic - worked (as does the Wi-Fi in my house, and with the device in the car nearby).

However, what I hadn't expected, as it doesn't occur on GPRS, is that updates (any updates, big or small) interrupt the Navigation when driving (and presumably on Bluetooth, if it worked..., and I cannot - I repeat cannot - defer these.

They are, IMO, disruptive and frankly potentially dangerous and therefore unusable. I don't want to be advised - by anyone - TomTom or Forum - to take my unit in each day and update before I go out, as updates seem to come randomly, and it is not something I can turn off or manage on the device or on my online account.

TomTom support (sort of) acknowledged this as an issue, but again ignored a question as to if/when this might be fixed - I suspect it won't be, as it is either endemic to their core platform solution or the device simply can't be amended - either hardware or software - to deal with this. If anyone knows better, I'd be delighted to learn more!

It is implausible that TomTom can offer a SIM upgrade (nor the pathetically useless, nominally not customer replacement batteries - which can be replaced... - which last about 10 minutes after about a year), but whether they can provide useful upgrades to the software for older devices I don't know. The last relevant upgrade which I have seen was about 18 months ago - other upgrades were for newer devices.

As far as I am concerned, effective Traffic service is probably a dead issue. In the UK (at least in London), this has now been complicated by 'Low Traffic Neighbourhoods', and I have yet to see any Sat-Nav solutions for navigating those.

Coupled to that is the less than helpful, often unintelligible Support Desk, working rom a script, run by a Third Party facilities company, and probably in Bangladesh from what I can find out, which is distanced from the parent company, who are, it seems now focused on OEM mapping solutions and their own, subscription-based Smartphone app.

However, they are still selling Consumer type Units - why? how? Now they are trying to sell us the new TomTom 'Tom' -I don't think so. W would I ever trust them and buy *anything* from them again? Probably not...

As far as I am concerned, TomTom can 'Take a Long Walk Off a Short Pier' - an old British phrase....

 

[Willy875]

@John Usher

Okay, as you say, the UK still has 2G for several years.

What do you do if you move to another country?

What will users do? In countries where SIM cards are already deactivated or will be soon?

 

[John Usher]

Wily875

I feel this is a 'Red Herring' (Noyer le poisson?)

I am in the UK, as are several of the contributors to this thread.

TomTom, operating in the UK, sold the device to me directly for use in the UK, knowing the UK technical and legal environment in place.

TomTom can see - if they wish - from their database that I have used it, and updated it solely within the UK. I have no plans to use it in other countries.

I cannot address other the needs of users other countries - equally, what if they choose to move to the UK?

If 2G/GPRS is ceased in any jurisdiction, that is not down to TomTom, but the least they can do is address the software issues I have outlined between the device, Bluetooth, WI-Fi, and their platform software, which they show no signs of doing that I can see.

If they can't do this, then, IMO, they need to declare 'End Of Life' (*their* definition of 'Life' - and they have on many products), and address this to the UK market in a professional, constructive, consumer-oriented manner, and not in their current manner.

However, I suspect TomTom will not take any notice of this Forum.

Thanks.