TMC traffic cable showing random delays that don't exist

[Brian_H]

Hi

Been having issues with a TomTom IQ routes edition for around 3 weeks now where traffic delays (of several hours in most cases) are being shown that simply don't exist. This has been in several areas in England. I've also spoken to someone else in a different area of the country with tmc on a via unit with the same sort of problem. I've tried getting assistance from tomtom tech support but frankly they aren't interested in any way in actually solving the problem. I've been advised to optomise the reception (despite it being upto date shown by the traffic screen) and then told effectively to go away or buy a device with live services.

I've tried replacing the cable (mine had the original separate cable and module that the charger plugged into) with one of the newer style cables with no difference to the problem seen, I've tried reinstalling the device app and map (no change either).

Does anyone have any ideas on this? or knows if this is as tomtom insist a problem with the broadcast of the info (to quote them "we are unable to advise who to contact for the broadcast of the info").

They have offered me a discount on a new device, but to be honest if they can't fix this if i buy another device it won't be a tomtom as it seems a fairly simple issue to answer. personally I'm sure its been broken with an update around 3 weeks ago.

This did work pretty flawlessly until 3 weeks ago so i can't understand why its suddenly gone like this overnight!

 

[canderson]

TomTom tech support will likely be so far removed from the actual source of the problem that one wonders if they could possibly get the word to the right place. Especially as others are experiencing this same problem, changing cables isn't going to provide you with any relief. It's the author of the TMC data being pumped out on the RDS signals that is at the root of the problem. Tech support's story on this is, unfortunately, accurate.

I have no idea how to get your problem to the right hands, but at least I know the right company. These are the folks that manage your traffic data in the UK:

INRIX Europe
Station House
Stamford New Road, Altrincham
Cheshire WA14 1EP
England
Phone: (+44) 161 927 3600
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Brian_H]

Will give them an email and see what comes back. Cheers

 

[Stevie_B]

I have the same issue with a TomTom Carminat Live embedded in a Renault Scenic. At the moment, Renault and TomTom are not coming up with anything.

I've done a format / reinitialise which (according to TomTom Support) is the most drastic thing you can do to eliminate software issues. I've responded to them and taken some more camera phone shots and waiting for reply.

They have tried to flog me Live Traffic and offered a tenner discount, but I dont need that - I just want it working back to how it was before the thing was updated on 15th November. As more and more people update, I reckon the issue will get worse for TomTom which will keep the phone lines busy and the slow responses on the MyTomTom site.

They have also done the usual text around "we dont control the TMC data", but I've proven that the data coming through is OK. For example, I've sent some pics to TomTom from the weekend:

- Traffic Delay 1 (pics 0131, 0132, 0133) - shows the unit saying there is a 2 hour 24 min delay (144 mins) for an 8 mile stretch of the A11 where average speeds are 60kmh. For info, this stretch is normally 50mph, but they are imposing a 40mph speed limit whilst they are building a new dual carriageway. Impact should have been about 5-10mins tops.

- Traffic Delay 2 (pics 0138, 0141) - shows the unit saying there is a 2 hour 10 min delay (130 mins) for an 18.2 mile stretch of the A14 where average speeds are 70kmh. Impact should have been about 10-15mins.

The pics I sent them included the detailed info from "Show Traffic" and the fact that it states the stretch and the average speed, indicates to me that the unit is getting the data. For some reason its just not calculating the delay impact right. It then goes a bit mad with replanning.

Thats where I've got to!

Using smartphones at the mo.

View attachment 4344 View attachment 4345 View attachment 4345 View attachment 4347 View attachment 4348

 

[Brian_H]

yeah sounds like exactly the same issue. Incidentally I've restored mine back to September 2013 from an old backup on my laptop, and still have the same issue which suggests it isn't an update thats caused this.

I have had some response from the company given above - i'll send them a link to this thread as i suspect that there is a load of people affected.

I've seen the delay shown on the same bit of the a11 shown at over 4 hours at 1am mid week..... I think i barely saw another car going in the same direction as me at the time.

I've also seen delays on the a5 around Milton Keynes where there is again roadworks going on. Same sort of distorted reports time wise. I've seen 4 1/2 hour delays reported on the m1 south of MK as well. Trouble is now i can't trust the detail shown as I've seen sometimes there is a noticeable problem there but its being exaggerated.

Really Tomtom need to actually acknowledge the problem as its being shown up on their product.. But that would be like expecting them to fix the speed camera submission problem I've got rather than fobbing it off on a firewall (with no indication why its an intermittent problem.....)

TT Tech support have sold me on replacing it with a Garmin as they have been consistently poor on the few contacts I've had with them - I've had 4 reasons to contact them over 3 1/2 years and only 1 of those was resolved satisfactorily.

and yes I'm after the same - just to get it working how it did before (it wasn't perfect, but was useful - the fm/rds is limited from what I've seen as it only reports on sections between junctions - I think down to limitations of the format more than anything).

The one thing I've noticed is it always seems to be where there is something going on (roadworks etc) - the reports aren't random as such just the delay info is)

 

[Brian_H]

And I've observed this across quite a large area of the country - I've seen it on the m1 around j24, j12-9, The A11 where the widening is going on, The A5 around MK. Probably other places I've forgotten as well.

Also know someone else has the same issue when his works (his area is poor for coverage) and he is based in Axminster. So doesn't appear to be particularly localized,

 

[canderson]

Interesting that you're both in the UK, though not exactly anywhere near one another. Sounds like Inrix owes some explanations.

That said...

RDS-TMC traffic is not coordinate based. It operates on tables of intersections, and provides traffic information between two points that exist within the provided table. IF, for whatever reason, the tables being used by the RDS provider were to get out of sync with what is being used by TomTom, that could create a bit of a mess. But since you've tried older code on your unit from a point where things were working, that should not be an issue. I have NO idea how often, if ever, the providers shuffle tables around. Given the inability of many receivers to be updated, I would think it would be a very rare thing indeed. So for now, I'm putting it off as an Inrix issue.

 

[Brian_H]

Yeah the guy I've been emailing about it seems to be interested in getting to the bottom of it. I've sent him a link to this thread today. It does seem to be specific to Tomtom with rds though as he has a Garmin system built in with the traffic function (although i gather theirs uses a superior DAB setup rather than the RDS fm receiver setup) and he hasn't noticed anything. i get all over the place with work but haven't been further north than Rotherham since the problems shown up. This symptom also seems to show up every time there is traffic (its not an occasional report thats wrong its every one that gets reported).

 

[canderson]

If you get any additional information, keep us posted please.

 

[Stevie_B]

I don't think there is an issue with the traffic data coming through using the TMC system because a colleagues Garmin is working fine. We've set some routes and done some comparisons.

You are not finding that the whole of the UK Sat Nav population is up-in-arms about TMC sending rubbish data.

Canderson - I'm not sure TMC is looked after by Inrix. In the UK I think its done by a company called "iTIS Holdings / iTMC". Its a commercial company that uses some national / local commercial radio station frequencies to carry the data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_message_channel

Brian_H - I'm not sure how I can roll back my software. I do have an old backup of my Memory Card, but it doesn't seem to roll back the software.

At the moment, my device is showing this under Status information:
App 9.847.1302316.550, OS 1099817
("NFA2.6-RC14", 27/6/2013)
GPS v1.20, Boot 83.9378

Unfortunately I updated my machine on November 15th, and its not been the same since. Wish I'd never done it.

If it is a software issue (as I now suspect), then TomTom (and car companies like Renault) will be dealing with increasing reports as people do software updates.

At the moment though, Renault and TomTom aren't saying its a software problem - they are just not saying anything. Renault saying they are waiting for response from TomTom. TomTom are just really slow. I'd happily take my car to a garage for an engineer to run some proper diagnostics on the unit.

At the end of a day I'm a customer of Renault (not TomTom) and it would be nice for Renault to show a bit more action.

Would be interested to know whether the software info above resembles anything similar on your devices.

Steve.

 

[canderson]

As for the RDS-TMC supplier, check this article to understand the relationship between Inrix and ITIS. That Wiki information you cite is a bit dated:
http://telematicsnews.info/2011/07/...this-mean-for-the-automotive-industry_jl2281/

As for software versions, the Carminat code is out there on its own, and the numbering does not resemble that for the standalone devices at all. The OP won't have anything similar to your version numbers on his GO IQR unit.

 

[Stevie_B]

OK re: ITIS and Inrix relationship.

Re: software versions - appreciate it was a bit of a long shot posting that. I have the "Carminat Live" embedded system so any comparisons are probably only limited to Renault customers. I didn't know how much software / firmware commonality there is between devices.

Apparently Renault are getting reports from other customers with the same issue.

 

[Stevie_B]

A bit more web searching... looks like TomTom released the Carminat software v9.847 on the 22nd October 2013. I did the update on Nov 15th - thats when the problems started.

 

[Brian_H]

If you have tt home on your pc to update the software (its unclear from your post if you do or not) then IF you took a backup when prompted you'd have one. However the genius that designed this particular feature of TT Home didn't imagine you'd ever want more than one backup, and if you leave it at the default settings you will have a backup of the state prior to the last update. Which sounds fine in theory but means in practice you will usually try to update again a few days later when you discover the problem and want to go back a few steps.

If you open TT home (assuming you use home and not the other program with the carminat devices of course) there should be a backup/restore option on the second page. Open that with the memory card visible to tt home and it should be able to tell you if any backup is available and what date its from.


Worth noting though it hasn't made the slightest difference to mine.

Incidentally the garmin issue i will quote from the email i was sent

Hi Brian,
You can buy a very good Garmin unit which contains our data TPEG over DAB not RDS-TMC. The information is richer and there is more of it compared to what we are limited to with RDS-TMC.

I have the following unit http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...dp:1o1|bku:1&gclid=CI62ztrarbsCFabLtAodTEgAQg

Please continue to let me know how you get on with the TomTom

Best regards,

xxxxxxxxx

So depending on the type of garmin unit it may not actually be using the same info. As far as i can gather all the tt info is either fm or the HD style updates. Whereas Garmin digital traffic is dab based......

 

[Brian_H]

And the other slightly odd thing - there wasn't an application update around that time. Only postcodes and maps, which as far as i know neither should have any effect on this sort of problem?

 

[Stevie_B]

I have TT Home, and I see what you mean. I have the single backup dated 13th December which is when I did the whole reinitialise thing I guess :-(

Shame I cant go back in time to September!!

As you say... odd that such a minor update causes such a major issue.

The Garmin DAB system sounds interesting and more innovative.

Unfortunately as my unit is built into the car so I'm stuck waiting for Renault to sort it out with TT (their supplier) - but its still quiet.
http://www.renault.co.uk/cars/model/scenic/scenic/specifications/tomtomlive/

 

[canderson]

A bit more web searching... looks like TomTom released the Carminat software v9.847 on the 22nd October 2013. I did the update on Nov 15th - thats when the problems started.

That could mean that as of the October code release, there's a lack of sync between the Inrix TMC tables and the TomTom TMC tables for the UK, or a problem with the interpretation of those tables. Again, those tables define locations (essentially, sections of major roads between intersections) where traffic can be reported, and unlike Live services, there's a limited number of table entries possible (due to the bit count TMC allows to report it). TMC sends out one of the table entries that indicate a particular section of road and along with that what kind of 'event' is involved within that section of road. The device and information provider MUST agree on the meaning of the table entries in order to properly locate the traffic event and display it on the map.

Based solely upon what you have reported in this thread, it seems unlikely that Inrix has produced strange table data (users of other manufacturers' units not reporting the problem), so that really does point to either a table error or a lookup error within the table inside your device, and would be something TomTom would necessarily have to correct on their end. I would suggest that you copy/paste this entire message or better, express it in similar word by phone to TomTom so that they will correctly understand the nature of the problem you are describing. If the first tech support agent you speak with is clueless about RDS-TMC location tables, insist on speaking with someone who does understand what's being said. If you don't, the odds of having this problem reported correctly to someone who can fix it are zilch. Meanwhile, I may try to get someone's attention on this as well, but no promises there. None of us here work for TomTom, so we really don't have all the right connections to raise issues as arcane as this!

 

[canderson]

However the genius that designed this particular feature of TT Home didn't imagine you'd ever want more than one backup, and if you leave it at the default settings you will have a backup of the state prior to the last update...

As an aside to the main topic:

This can be remedied in two ways. First, we recommend a different method of backup that avoids this problem entirely: https://www.tomtomforums.com/thread...-to-the-computer-and-how-to-restore-it.17864/

It's also easy to take the backup folder that Home creates (My Documents / TomTom / HOME / Backup / GO (or other unit type) / Backup01 and just rename the 'Backup01' folder to something useful like 'Backup 12 Dec 13'. The next time you do a backup, Home will create yet another Backup01 that you can rename to whatever you like, so you can keep as many backup versions as you like.

 

[canderson]

And the other slightly odd thing - there wasn't an application update around that time. Only postcodes and maps, which as far as i know neither should have any effect on this sort of problem?

That's what is troublesome about this, Brian. While Stevie's situation has some possible explanation as regards a firmware update, your situation does not. I have never heard of TMC tables being 'pushed' separately by Home without the users knowledge. There is something very odd going on here.

The advice I gave to Stevie may turn out to be bogus, but given what he's told us, I'm having to deal with his problem separately, and that advice doesn't seem to apply to your situation. Odd that both cropped up at once, though.

 

[Brian_H]

As an aside to the main topic:

This can be remedied in two ways. First, we recommend a different method of backup that avoids this problem entirely: https://www.tomtomforums.com/thread...-to-the-computer-and-how-to-restore-it.17864/

It's also easy to take the backup folder that Home creates (My Documents / TomTom / HOME / Backup / GO (or other unit type) / Backup01 and just rename the 'Backup01' folder to something useful like 'Backup 12 Dec 13'. The next time you do a backup, Home will create yet another Backup01 that you can rename to whatever you like, so you can keep as many backup versions as you like.

Now that is quite helpful to know. Although i still think the software could be far better handled by the software. Cheers!

I will enquire next time i go to my parents place as they have one of the carminat units on their scenic and i think it does have a traffic display. Theirs hasn't been updated as they have get the dealer to do it (apparently that is the only way they can do it). But that may prove or disprove the point of updates causing it.

I also know of someone else though work who has one of the much newer via units with the tmc cable who has the same issue when he gets coverage so it doesn't seem isolated to just the one IQR unit either...... He isn't local to me either so its not like its a dodgy transmitter issue that could be blamed.