Start 25 very dead,

[froggy]

Hi all, I have recently been given the above satnav & was told it had a prblem where it has stopped charging, I have plugged it into the car socket but i still get no response from the beast, I was wondering if the 12v external supply needs the internal battery to have a bit of charge in it to start up, Or does the internal battery have it's own PCB built in which may be stopping the external supply from firing it up?, I have had a quick look at the USB port & that looks fine & nothing seems to have come adrift from the motherboard. Any help would be appreciated,,,,,,,,Oh & Merry Christmas by the way!.

 

[canderson]

Although the car adapter starts at 12V on the input side, its output and your Start 25 require 5VDC. Just being clear there.

If you have a mains charger with the requisite USB micro-B connector (don't even use the cable that comes with it, bring your own), hook it up that way and leave it for a few hours, then ...
Press and hold the power button for 20 seconds until you see signs of life (we can hope) and release the button immediately.
What we don't know is if the auto charger/cable is any good, so this eliminates that as an issue that we can deal with later.

If that doesn't get it, it may be that the battery is toast from use and then extended disuse. It IS possible to allow one of these batteries to sit for so long after use that the voltage is so low that it is no longer recognized as present by the charging electronics. Rare, but it can happen.

 

[froggy]

Although the car adapter starts at 12V on the input side, its output and your Start 25 require 5VDC. Just being clear there.

If you have a mains charger with the requisite USB micro-B connector (don't even use the cable that comes with it, bring your own), hook it up that way and leave it for a few hours, then ...
Press and hold the power button for 20 seconds until you see signs of life (we can hope) and release the button immediately.
What we don't know is if the auto charger/cable is any good, so this eliminates that as an issue that we can deal with later.

If that doesn't get it, it may be that the battery is toast from use and then extended disuse. It IS possible to allow one of these batteries to sit for so long after use that the voltage is so low that it is no longer recognized as present by the charging electronics. Rare, but it can happen.

Thanks for your prompt reply, I have checked the cable by using it on my mobile & that seems to be fine, Also used my mobile phone charger which is 5v DC to see if that prompted it into life but admittedly only for a few seconds, I'll chuck it all back together again & leave it plugged in for a while,
So if I have got what you are saying correctly if the battery is "Toast" this will stop the unit working off the 5v input also?.

 

[canderson]

"a few seconds" is actually a hopeful sign.
Yes, it is possible that a dead battery will prevent operation. The exact mechanism is a bit hard to explain, but the way these devices work, the battery supplies power to the unit, even while being charged. A battery that cannot be charged will prevent the device from operating. That said, even if the battery is so tired that its life turns out to be only 10 minutes when all is said and done, the device will work when supplied with external power.
Keep us posted on progress with the mains charger. Give it a few hours.

 

[froggy]

"a few seconds" is actually a hopeful sign.
Yes, it is possible that a dead battery will prevent operation. The exact mechanism is a bit hard to explain, but the way these devices work, the battery supplies power to the unit, even while being charged. A battery that cannot be charged will prevent the device from operating. That said, even if the battery is so tired that its life turns out to be only 10 minutes when all is said and done, the device will work when supplied with external power.
Keep us posted on progress with the mains charger. Give it a few hours.

Sorry i should have worded my reply better, I did try the charger for a few seconds but nothing happened!, Anyhow I am now leaving the charger on for a while to see if that kicks it into gear, It would help if this unit had a charging light to give me a clue, I have also tried switching the charger on & off a few times as i have had success in the past with what seemed to be duff camcorder batteries, Sort of kicking the battery up the rear to wake it up kind of thing!.

 

[Arno]

Your mobile phone charger most likely delivers more amperage then the car charger.

Before I replaced the battery on my 8 year old GO 930 it was holding power for 3 minutes only. Yet, I could drive all day with it when plugged into the cigarette lighter of the car.

 

[froggy]

Your mobile phone charger most likely delivers more amperage then the car charger.

Before I replaced the battery on my 8 year old GO 930 it was holding power for 3 minutes only. Yet, I could drive all day with it when plugged into the cigarette lighter of the car.

Strange as it may seem my mobile charger only kicks out 400mA max whereas the TT 12v adapter one kicks out 1.2A apparently so all safe in that department albeit a tad slower charge rate.

 

[canderson]

Clearly, if the TT charger is working OK, it wold be preferred at 1.2A.
I've seen some mobile mains chargers that are good for as much as 2A, but your 400mA charger isn't surprising. You'd be as well or better off a port on your PC at that rate! (500mA).
So what's the news after a longish charging session? Any life?
I assume that it's not even recognized by your PC when plugged in, either? Just eliminating the possibility of a screen issue that might be confusing things.

 

[froggy]

Clearly, if the TT charger is working OK, it wold be preferred at 1.2A.
I've seen some mobile mains chargers that are good for as much as 2A, but your 400mA charger isn't surprising. You'd be as well or better off a port on your PC at that rate! (500mA).
So what's the news after a longish charging session? Any life?
I assume that it's not even recognized by your PC when plugged in, either? Just eliminating the possibility of a screen issue that might be confusing things.

I left it on charge for around 3 hours but still no sign of life with the 20 second push, Funnily enough connecting it to the PC was the very first thing i did when I got it but got no response, I didn't receive the genuine car adapter but I do have a couple of generic cigar lighter to USB adapters around somewhere so will have to dig one out to see what they are rated at, I will of course get a properly rated one once I have got the unit up & running, In the meantime I will have a look at my numerous ther device chargers just in case there is a 1.2A in among them.

 

[froggy]

I left it on charge for around 3 hours but still no sign of life with the 20 second push, Funnily enough connecting it to the PC was the very first thing i did when I got it but got no response, I didn't receive the genuine car adapter but I do have a couple of generic cigar lighter to USB adapters around somewhere so will have to dig one out to see what they are rated at, I will of course get a properly rated one once I have got the unit up & running, In the meantime I will have a look at my numerous ther device chargers just in case there is a 1.2A in among them.

UPDATE,,,,,,Just found a 5V 1.3A mains adapter which I am now giving a go.

 

[froggy]

UPDATE,,,,,,Just found a 5V 1.3A mains adapter which I am now giving a go.

UPDATE,,,,,Have removed the battery this morning to test it, Meter is showing 4.16V across black/red & black/yellow wires (assuming black is negative) so I am thinking that the battery is OK, After reconnecting it I then held the power button down & although i got no response from the display I did get a brief 'Hissing' through the speaker for a couple of seconds, I am now wondering if this unit has a software issue?, But as i cannot get it recognised on my PC how can I go about reloading it.?

 

[canderson]

Although that's an unloaded voltage, 4.16 certainly indicates a proper charge.

Not sure if you've got a software issue or hardware issue, but I think we can assume the battery is at an acceptable level.

Having removed the battery entirely, you can't get more 'off' than that, so we know that the device had a decent shot at a cold boot when you reinstalled the battery.

The fact that you heard a "hiss" but never heard the TomTom drums after the reboot indicates that we're not just dealing with a 'dead screen'. It's the whole device that's at issue now.

One more thing I'd like to know before we give this one up as a binner ... Hold the power button down for a good bit longer than 20 seconds ... more along the lines of 45 seconds (time it!). See if it shifts to a white on black diagnostic screen. If not, I don't know what to tell you to do. That routine causes the most low level of code (the bootloader) to display information on the screen. If that is unsuccessful, the unit would need to be reflashed to see if that helped, and TomTom doesn't do that for units already sold.

 

[froggy]

Although that's an unloaded voltage, 4.16 certainly indicates a proper charge.

Not sure if you've got a software issue or hardware issue, but I think we can assume the battery is at an acceptable level.

Having removed the battery entirely, you can't get more 'off' than that, so we know that the device had a decent shot at a cold boot when you reinstalled the battery.

The fact that you heard a "hiss" but never heard the TomTom drums after the reboot indicates that we're not just dealing with a 'dead screen'. It's the whole device that's at issue now.

One more thing I'd like to know before we give this one up as a binner ... Hold the power button down for a good bit longer than 20 seconds ... more along the lines of 45 seconds (time it!). See if it shifts to a white on black diagnostic screen. If not, I don't know what to tell you to do. That routine causes the most low level of code (the bootloader) to display information on the screen. If that is unsuccessful, the unit would need to be reflashed to see if that helped, and TomTom doesn't do that for units already sold.

No joy with holding the button down for 45 seconds, It does seem like it is trying to start going by the 'hiss', If I just push it momentary as if to do a normal switch on I also get the hiss so it is trying to do something, My only other thought is that although the battery shows healthy volts I am wondering if the Amps drop right off under load, The only way to find out I suppose is to get another battery just to confirm either way.

 

[canderson]

If possible, measure battery voltage during boot. A little awkward, but certainly possible if you've got some fine tips for your meter.
If battery holds 3.5V or better during boot, I'm afraid this one is a loss.