Problem with Live Traffic

Sounds a whole lot more like a problem with the radio system they installed. Dollars to donuts that they've just installed a brand new DTRS system and have also just realized that their gear is being swamped by the RF from nearby cell sites. Happens all the time with consumer scanners, but that should never happen with commercial gear! It's called 'de-sensing' by a lot of people, but I just call it "crap for AGC". It makes sense if you're into radio gear. And why in the name of time did Oakland deploy a system without adequate testing first? If I were the City of Oakland, I'd sue the bloody contractor for a) delivery of pi$$ poor gear, and b) not conducting a propagation study before full deployment took place. Shoddy on all counts.
 
I'm no expert, but certainly have a lot of experience in this area of communications. AT&T runs their 2G systems on 850MHz. (Actually, the full range of the spectrum there is 824–849 and 869–894, but they call that mess '850MHz' and I'm too lazy to locate the exact AT&T Oakland freq there in the FCC database, but it doesn't matter in this case).

The DTRS system Oakland is using (aka APCO-25) typically comes in two different frequency flavors .. one down in the 700MHz range, and the older and still more popular 850MHz which also really isn't exactly 850MHz, either. Oakland's DTRS system (easy to look up) is operating in the 851~855MHz range. As you can see, that slides right in between those two big blocks for AT&T's cellular service.

It takes a decent radio to reject all of the adjacent frequency signal when you're sitting right under the transmitter, and my trusty (and up-to-date) model Radio Shack scanner can't do it. I have to hit the ATT (attenuation) button to bring down the whole incoming signal level a bit. Good cop gear is a lot more selective and also utilizes better quality AGC (automatic gain control) on the RF than consumer gear, so a DECENT cop radio won't be the least bothered by the adjacent channel interference. That's part of the reason that they cost a good chunk of change.

DTRS is digital. Like VOIP for phones, voice sounds are turned into digital packets and turned back into sound at the other end. Unlike the old analog radio days where you could still pick the words out of the noise if you had a good ear, below a certain signal threshold, the digital packets can't be decoded and things very quickly become completely unintelligible. In dispatch-ese, it's called "going digital", as in "Paul 258, you went digital", meaning the dispatcher heard garbage instead of words.

Anyway, unless AT&T was running an 'out-band' operation there in Oakland, and so far, nobody has accused them of that, the problem lies in the equipment that Oakland purchased, and a really poor testing phase that should have uncovered this problem very early on -- before the actual deployment. It's not like there aren't tons of 2G cell sites there.
 
Thanks canderson.
This is very illuminating (no irony here).
My immediate problem is to try to figure out if my unit is defective, or this is a "new normal" for my area.
If my unit is defective, I may be willing to buy a new one, if it's a "new normal", I have to find something different; commuting without good traffic info is like flying blind for me. My commute may take apporx. 50 minutes or approx. 80 mintes each way depending on decisions I make, & have 4 major freeways & lots of permutations to choose from.
THX
 
Best thing I can tell you is to get the heck away from the Bay Area for a weekend jaunt to 'somewhere' and see whether or not you can pull up a 2G connection somewhere else. At least you'll know if the problem is your unit.

How well and how long 2G is going to work for people will depend upon where they're located, but your Oakland example is certainly unique. That said, the handwriting is on the wall for all of us sooner or later. If I had to bet, I'd guess that we'll be back to seeing 4G Bluetooth cell phones piping the data over to TomToms again (like the old Plus services days). Not all of us appreciate the tiny fonts and illegible road markings on a cell phone and would prefer our TomTom screens.

I wonder how AT&T and the City will work this out in the long term? I suspect that the city's gear is the offender in the case, and that AT&T (along with you, their customers) just got the short end of this deal. There's nowhere for AT&T to run and hide (frequency-wise) unless they own some spectrum way up towards the high end of the GPRS band (closer to 895MHz). AT&T's customers shouldn't be penalized for Oakland's screw-up.
 
I did drive to Sacramento this past weekend, the picture was about the same as on a better day in SF area; signal dropped a few times & came back a few times, same for the yellow triangle, one drumroll (helped).
A also read that Verizon has no plans to drop their 2G.
I would be all for TT using my cell connection, that would require new hardware, I presume.
In any case I wonder how to get in touch with other Live users in the area to see if they are having the same problem, any suggestions?
THX
 
Actually, your 2535M might be able to handle it. I don't know whether the Bluetooth they're using on that unit has the stacks built into the chip or whether they're using separate stacks. If they control the stacks, or if the device already supports a useful profile (like DUN), then there's a decent chance that they could return us to the days of "Plus" services where the cell phone conveys the necessary information to the TomTom over a Bluetooth connection.
 
That would be great!
I wonder how we can find out?
Would give me something to hope for, meanwhile Waze is doing a decent job in my area, allthou I have to rely on spoken instructions.
It works for my commute since I'm mostly familriar with lay of the land.
Thanks.
 
The only way to find out is to wait and see. There's absolutely no question that the existing AT&T 2G system will be going down some day, and TomTom is still actively selling units that depend on this technology.

However, as I think about the feature set, with the exception of the XL340 Live, I think that all TomTom units that have a Live connection also have Bluetooth capability of some sort. Hmm.... I wonder what Bluetooth profiles are included besides the A2DP that we know about? DUN? Or even something as basic as SPP?
 
After a long email with TomTom support, it seems like they fix the problem(at least for me)
They first try to "activate the sim"(which I should already have, since I renew from previous services
Doesn't work
They tell me to soft and hard reset the unit
Doesn't work
They tell me there is a "known" problem on their side and should be fix soon
After couple days, it seems working.
The connection since solid for the past weekend(trip from Philly to Richmond VA has solid connection to live traffic except where there is no signal)
I wonder what is the "known" problem and what did they do to fix it?
 
Don't know. Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't pandemic or we'd have been hearing all kinds of reports about this. I'm only guessing there was a cock up about your account where the back-end and front-end servers (and perhaps even the carrier) didn't agree about your subscription, and they got that squared away for you. That doesn't always happen immediately.

FWIW, their "SIM activation" doesn't always 'take' on the first try, either.

I had a similar experience a couple of months ago, and it was determined that for whatever reason, my SIM registration with the carrier had expired early, and the carrier kept rejecting the connection. "Stuff" definitely happens in a chain this long.
 
Subject: Live Services on GO 2535

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email

Thank you for your phone call regarding GO LIVE 2535 M, your Call Reference for today is 121113-002757.

As I explained before, we have been experiencing an Outage with Live Services for some time now. Our service provided is upgrading the Satellite network and this is causing complete loss or poor quality in the service.
As discussed during our conversation, we do not have an specific timeframe yet as to when will this be entirely resolved, the expectations are that this doesn't last longer than 3 more weeks. A compensation will be made for this time in which poor service or lack of has been experienced.

Should you require any further assistance, or have any questions or comments, please respond back to me from this email.

With Best Regards,


TomTom Customer Support Team


Question Reference #121113-002757
Product Level 1: Car Navigation
Product Level 2: GO LIVE 2535 M
Category Level 1: Troubleshooting
Category Level 2: LIVE Services
Date Created: 11/12/2012 12:52 PM
Last Updated: 11/12/2012 12:52 PM
Status: Waiting
 
Live services impacted by .. "Our service provided (sic) is upgrading the Satellite network .. " Huh ????

If the link from TomTom in NL to the AT&T in the U.S. were being impacted (that's the only possible 'satellite' network I can imagine they could be talking about), everyone and his grandmother would be complaining about service here. I'm mystified. First I've heard of that explanation! We certainly aren't seeing your level of problems here in Colorado (or most other places).

I'll be asking someone I know at TT about this .. it's just too weird.
 
I have a TomTom Go 740 Live TM and recently I am having problems with live services.
50% of the time, the 740 would try to connect to the live server but then return back on rds traffic(while network status still shown as connected).
30% of the time the 740 will stuck on the loading(spinning circle on live traffic bar) and stay there until I turn it off (network status shows as connected also)
The rest is when it function normally(takes like 3 minutes to connect and get data), but usually got disconnected mid way through my trip and sometimes it reconnect sometimes it doesn't. (network status stays connected the entire way, just got disconnected from the server)

I am currently on the latest firmware (9.430) and latest map (v895). I tried running clear flash tool 3 times, reinstall the device from scratch(remove everything, install firmware, install map, quickgpsfix, mapshare) still doesn't work.


I have an XL LIVE IQ Routes Edition in the UK - Live services and HD trafic have totaly failed for some time, ( a service I am paying for)

The only reason I purchased this model was for the live services and HD traffic. Both services have regularly failed to work. Now there seems to be permanent failure, (has not worked for me since mid October). TomTom say the following:

“I have investigated your issue further and unfortunately, we are currently having an issue with the LIVE services on some devices. Our technical team are working on resolving this issue as soon as possible. I would like to ask you to test your services over the next few days and keep me updated if there is any change. I will also keep you updated if the issue has been resolved.”

I have heard nothing from TomTom and have been without the service since mid October
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Let's see if moderator Andy pipes up. He also has an XL IQR Live unit, and is also in the UK. I'd be surprised if this problem has existed for a month across that entire product line.
 
Yes, I've got an XL Live IQ Routes Edition. It doesn't get daily use at the moment, but I just checked it and LIVE Services are all working fine on it.
Traffic info is up to date and I can get weather reports (RAIN!) and use TT Local Search.

I'm also getting Live services OK on my Go950.

The only one I'm having problems with is my Go940, which I've probably messed up myself as I have been doing a LOT of tinkering with it.

One important thing to check is what info is shown on the "Network" screen (on the XL Live that's in Change preferences / Version information / Network)

For diagnostic purposes, TomTom would need to know if there are SIM ID, MCC/MNC and IMEI numbers showing.
(on my Go940 they are NOT).
 
Many thanks, Andy. I rather thought that the "we are currently having an issue with the LIVE services on some devices" business sounded a bit bogus. Can't think of any reason that this model should be having any particular issues.

@Diamond1
I'd get back on their line and give them an earful and see if you can't get this resolved. Ask them exactly what they meant when they said "some devices", and advise them that others with the same model in the UK aren't seeing this problem. Also suggest that they extend the length of your subscription as compensation for your 'down time'.

I don't know how it works on your side of the Atlantic, but here, we often have to push Live problems to the second tier of support to someone who deals in detail with Live problems in order to see them resolved. Might be worth pushing for that attention on your side as well.
 
Live Services reported restored

Apparently the problem has been reolved but TomTom failed to e-mail me as they had promised.
I finaly received the following reply from TomTom;

The issue has been solved and one month compensation has been added to your account . Please do the factory reset and then hold the power button for 20 second then log in and test the live services .

I am really sorry for the inconvenience . I know that i can't apologize enough . You should have received an updated e-mail for the issue.

I have not yet tried the factory reset.

Does a factory reset mean I loose my favourites, I have both TomTom back-up and "back-up" copies using Explorer
 

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