Map Updating. What a Nightmare!

[Kenneth 12346]

Having just become the owner of my third Tomtom (710 and 910 previously) I have to say that the so called update to my new Via LIVE 125 is just beyong a joke.

I feel that TomTom need to sort this out for their buyers.

So let's look at it. I get it out of the box, all shiny and new, and then install the software from the "Get Started" link to get the updates.

And then what? Well I find that the update is so HUGE that it's going to take up all my internet allowanace for the month, and is going to take about 4 hours to download.

Yes, TomTom there are users who still do NOT have super fast broadband out here!!

So, knowing that I'm going up to London and that my brother in law does have a super fast Broadband connection, I take it with me, with the idea of doing it there.

What a shambles. His massive iMac (very latest 2010 model) all singing and dancing and on cable broadband) won't have anything to do with the "Get Started programme" working with the device. (Plenty about this on the web). Doesn't recognise it, doesn't like Mac's at all in fact, and so, consequently is unable to download the latest map update!

So back I come home. Decide to use my FULL MONTHS allowance and download the update. What happens.....about 7/8 of the way through the download, it glitches, loses the connection, and so the eventual upload to my TomTom fails.

So now I've spent ?15.00 on the download and 4 hours sitting waiitng, to achieve absolutely nothing.

NOT HAPPY. Not happy at all.

Not only that, but my screen (bearing in mind this is a brand new unit) now tells me that there are NO MAPS. The unit is effectively as much use for navigation as a house brick. It's dead, kaput, and u/s.

So I wait all weekend, and then get onto Customer Support. wait 34 minutes to get connected (more expense), and manage to get through to somebody who tells me that they will replace the unit. They have had this problem before (How Amazing is that)!!

So now I have another brand new unit (again) having had to go on a round trip of 24 miles (more expense) to get the replacement, and wait for over 30 minutes in the shop (Halfords) whilst their chap also tries to get through to TomTom on a dedicated Retailer phone line (which then switches over to Customer Support).

Their Phone Line call system response times are an absolute DISGRACE!!

So could I suggest this to TomTom.

TELL YOUR CUSTOMERS that before they can update their map, they will have to spend about 6 hours and a lot more money. Also that it's not a good idea to try and download the update unless you have NASA's computers, and that the update is probably the same as the maps you've got installed anyway, because as soon as you start to download it, it tells you that No Updates are available....your maps are up to date....despite tellling you that they weren't when you used the "Get Started" programme.

Now, as the man at Hafords said.

If HE had a Master Copy on a Memory card of the latest maps. HE could have downloaded this for me, and the unit wouldn't have had to go back to TomTom. And I wouldn't have had to screw up a brand new unit in the first place, and waste hours trying to get the thing up and running. And THEY wouldn't have had to give me a second unit.

Where is the business sense in that?

Meanwhile would TomTom like to send me a Memory card with the latest map and updates on it, so that I can install it quickly, without fuss, and at no cost.......as promised on the box!! After all, that's part of what I bought.....and I ain't got it!

I await your reply TomTom, because I am NOT HAPPY!!

And looking at this thread, it seems that you have let down an awful lot of customers.

Am I going to try and update it again. What's the point.
I'll just look elsewhere for my next Satnav, when this one breaks. So Tom TOM you will have lost a very loyal customer.

 

[canderson]

Having just become the owner of my third Tomtom (710 and 910 previously) ...

If you ever updated your maps for either the 710 or 910, you should find that you're in the same soup in terms of file size. Depending upon how busy the server is, it should take about the same length of time to pull down the European map for your Via as it did for those. Guess I don't understand why the time to download on a 'less than broadband' connection is any surprise. Or did you never update the maps or firmware on the others?

In your shoes, I'd be out with a notebook or netbook looking for some free wi-fi service somewhere!

The fellow at Halfords was blowing smoke up your posterior. "If HE had a Master Copy on a Memory card of the latest maps. HE could have downloaded this for me, and the unit wouldn't have had to go back to TomTom." You'll have to trust me on this one -- there's NO way he could do this. He misunderstands how the process works on new units - they pull the data directly from the server and don't look like external drives. You can't 'copy' files to them from a 'local' source.

 

[Andy_P]

Oh and just in case you hadn't realised... we aren't TomTom!

By all means let off steam here, and we DO sympathise. but if you have specific complaints, you'll need to direct them at TomTom's own customer service department as there is no connection between them and this user's forum.

 

[Kenneth 12346]

Thanks Canderson and Andy.

I appreciate this isn't the Tomtom site, but if I have saved just one new owner the hassle I went through, then my post will have been worth it.

My advice for any new VIA owner is NOT to download this dreadful "Get Started programme. Just use the device as it is, straight out of the box,and forget about ever upgrading the device with newmaps/traffic/ or anything else.

Problem is that once you have downloaded the programme, every time you connect the device, it will automatically try to download newer things.

And it doesn't work!!

I feel cheated by this idea of having to make these huge downloads. I don't feel as though I've got value for money, and it will certainly influence my decisions next time I replace my unit.

Downloads of this size are too risky, and as I proved, one glitch, one interruption and that's your device unfit for use.

A backward step in my opinion.

 

[Andy_P]

My advice for any new VIA owner is NOT to download this dreadful "Get Started programme. Just use the device as it is, straight out of the box,and forget about ever upgrading the device with new maps/traffic/ or anything else.

But by doing that, they'll also miss out on all of the other things we can do to customise the device, such as adding our own POI files and changing voices, colour schemes, car cursors etc.

Problem is that once you have downloaded the programme, every time you connect the device, it will automatically try to download newer things.

I know there are some small items that get updated automatically, but every time there has been something like a software update, MyTomTom has always paused and given me the option of installing it or not.

I feel cheated by this idea of having to make these huge downloads. I don't feel as though I've got value for money, and it will certainly influence my decisions next time I replace my unit.

How else would you suggest they offer updates? Sending out SD cards to everyone would simply push prices up and many models don't have SD card slots anyway! (Something I disagree with strongly, but that's another argument).

I'm sure Garmin and the other brands also use downloads for THEIR map updates.

Downloads of this size are too risky, and as I proved, one glitch, one interruption and that's your device unfit for use.

I mus t have downloaded a couple of dozen maps in my time, and when ever there has been a glitch, the download has re-started from where it left off, as the partial download is cached on the PC.

A backward step in my opinion.

But as Canderson said, it was exactly the same system of download on the old system with "Home".

 

[Kenneth 12346]

Andy: I'm not out to fall out with anyone over these issues, but you seem to have taken umbrage over my post by picking out every single bit of it and trying to ridicule me.

I have had two other TomTom satnavs, and never had the problems that I've had now.

I have, in fact, approached TomTom with this issue, and so far there has been a resounding silence, which to be honest was about what i was expecting.

So YES I DO think that TomTom should send out say a micro SD card (which does fit this unit) so that I can update my device, and resolve this issue.

The reason I think that is that the update download doesn't work, so unless I can put it on in some other way, then they haven't given me what I've paid for. That's deceitful and not acceptable.

Appreciated that by not downloading the Get Started programme I will be unable to upload anything else, but as I use this thing for work and leisure, I want it to work, and not glitch again and cause me further problems.

Basically, what I'm saying is that I don't have any confidence in using this programme again. The download is far too big for most PC's and there should be other ways to do it.

As far as the major (map say) downloads are concerned, the version of this programme that I used did NOT give the option of installing it or not. It just startes automatically. Version (3.1.0.432). when you plug the device in.

On the old HOME system, I never, ever had these problems. I'm not a newcomer to TomTom. Downloads were quick, efficient, and I'm still using the same PC, so that's not the issue.

So I think we must just beg to differ in our expectations here, but I'm not going to fall out with you about it.

I'll let you know if I hear back from Tomtom, but I think that they don't like complaints. They are like so many firms these days. They take your money, and that's the end of it. But I am going to pursue this, because I feel that when you buy something like this, then it should do what it says it does, and be able to be updated by an average user with an average PC or laptop. +3 GB downloads are, to me, unacceptable in terms of both time, and IT resources.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[Andy_P]

Andy: I'm not out to fall out with anyone over these issues, but you seem to have taken umbrage over my post by picking out every single bit of it and trying to ridicule me.

I'm sorry if that's the way it came across to you, it was certainly not my intention to attempt to ridicule you.

It's just that having used a lot of forums in my time, I find it clearest to show exactly what part of someone's post I am trying to reply to or comment on (using a discipline a bit like radio communications I suppose).
So all I was doing was to give my experience of the map purchase, and to show the problems you are having aren't universal.

I guess we just have different expectations? To me, a 2-3GB download is not that unusual (I'm talking about other fields such as music or video files here, not just TomTom maps) and if it was that unusual, I don't suppose all the major sat-nav manufacturers would use that method for buying maps. You can be absolutely sure they WANT to sell as many maps as possible, so it would be cutting their own throats to make it hard for everyone to do.

I sincerely hope you have some success with your dealings with TT customer services. Do let us know how you get on.

Andy

 

[Kenneth 12346]

Thank you for that.

I came on here to get some help, which TomTom clearly are unable to oblige with, not to be belittled, so I accept that you weren't trying to do that.

I have still heard nothing worthwhile back from TomTom other than they suggest using another computer, which simply isn't an option. My most recent follow up remains unanswered (4 days now) How many people do YOU know who would let you download a tomtom application to their computer and then tie it up for hours at a time, not to mention using a substantial part of THEIR Broadband allowance? I don't know any.

As it is, I have already tried to do this in London on my brother in laws computer which runs Mac, but without success (as per original post). This is a machine with massive capability, but even that won't do it, because there are issues with the TomTom programme recognising the Mac system at all, which is borne out by many web comments.

But do TomTom do anything about it? No they don't. They ignore it, just like they ignore this issue. They won't DEAL WITH the problem.

No, I'll just have to accept that I've bought something that I can't update. So when it comes to 12 months, I'll be unable to renew any options as to LIVE traffic or anything else. So I can't spend any more money with them.

Wonderful business sense that!! Really guaranteed to make me come back and buy from them again.

We don't download films, music or anything like that, so a 3Gb allowance falls quite well into our internet use, and I'm not prepared to go to extra expense just for TomTom.

In a nutshell, very disappointed that we won't be able to get the best from the unit, and absolutely amazed that an outfit with such a worldwide profile can't offer an alternative to users like myself.

What do owners who don't own a computer do, for example? It's a thoroughly unsatisfactory situation.

One things for sure. We won't be buying TomTom again.

We'll use the unit for a year, and then bin it. We'll then buy a unit that has a company behind it that don't bury their heads in the sand whenever their CUSTOMERS have a legiyimate problem making it do what it says on the box.

Angry. Definitely. We might as well have thrown ?200.00 away.

 

[Andy_P]

Just to add another experience....

Since my last post, an ex-colleague rang me and asked if I'd mind helping him buy and install new maps for his two TomToms before he went on holiday.

When I got to his house, I realised he was using a wireless connection to his laptop, and I told him it would be better to use a wired one to download a map.
But he said he didn't have a network cable so we HAD to go wireless.

I thought this might take a lot longer so in order to save time, decided to dig out his old laptop too so we could do one download on each.

I wasn't at all sure about the advisability of that, but to cut a long story short, we ended up downloading TWO Europe maps (different versions) simultaneously on the same wireless connection and they both completed OK.

It took an hour and a half, maybe two hours, but that was a good excuse to share a couple of beers while we waited.

 

[Kenneth 12346]

I have now placed this matter into the hands of solicitors, because we believe that for users who do not have access to mega fast computers, they are unable to perform basic updates.

This is totally unsatisfactory, and makes the product unfit for the purpose for which I bought it.

Other options for purchasers should be available to enable updates to take place.

I will advise of progress.

If TomTom think this is going away, then they are mistaken.

 

[Andy_P]

I think they will just say they warned you....

Advice on downloading maps

The table below shows approximately how long it takes to download a map.
----
Compare your internet speed with the chart listed below. If you are advised that your current speed is ?Not Recommended? try to download at an alternate location with a recommended internet speed.

There's probably something similar in tiny print on the outside of the box too (I can't check that).

 

[canderson]

I have now placed this matter into the hands of solicitors, because we believe that for users who do not have access to mega fast computers, they are unable to perform basic updates.

These updates could be done via a 300 baud modem if a person had time. Your updates should have restarted after failing part way through. We never got enough data to help you through that part of the malfunction, if that's what actually happened. Others of us have had good restarts under such circumstances, and that's how it's designed to work.

I think your real complaint is that it's taking too long. Given that you've already owned (and probably updated) previous TomTom units, the size of updates should have come as no surprise. I'd be careful not to let your solicitor know about that experience. How do you manage updates to the OS on your computer, or virus management applications on your computer? Good luck with that suit.

Being in a low bandwidth - high cost situation sucks in today's world, but it is what it is. I'd still be hijacking some WiFi at the local coffee shop. It's not like anyone can steal your maps.

 

[Kenneth 12346]

Thanks for these replies. Tom tom have emailed me to say that they are looking into the matter.

The broken downloads were the reason for the failure of the first device, which was replaced by my retailer after consultation with tomTom. I'm certainly not going to risk another failed download, which just results in me having a device with no maps at all.

I don't have ANY problems updating programmes or doing anything else on my computer. The fact is that the TomTom application downloads at the speed of thick treacle, and then fails to upload. It is also WAY TOO BIG to download easily and quickly. Have THEY never heard of ZIP files?

The TomTom programme also DOES download (or attempts to) AUTOMATICALLY, as soon as you put your log in details into Tomtom.

I have to maunually stop it doing so. The bar comes up on the top right of the screen and tells me that the download will take (on average 4 Hours) and in the process use ALL my internet allowance for that month. That is my issue. It should not cost me a quite disproportionate amount of time, resources and to download what are supposed to be FREE updates.

And what of the Mac issue that I have also tried? Even with a brand new, powerful, top of range Mac Computer, on cable Broadband and unlimited download capability, this wretched situation cannot be resolved.

Any of you guys who think I am throwing the towel in on this one, don't know me. TomTom had better sharpen their pencil on this one!

It's not going to happen, and I AM going to get this resolved. This is half the problem with people these days, they give up, roll over, and let these big companies roll all over them....and as a result nothing ever gets resolved..well not this one!

If I have to fly the world, turn up unannounced, and dump this "THING" on a number of desks and wake up a few stuffy ass executives with bad hearing and even worse attitude, who need to get off their asses on this, to get it sorted out, then that's what will happen.

Their after sales service is NOT GOOD ENOUGH>


Watch this space.

 

[Andy_P]

I hesitate to re-quote you after last time, but hey.. sue me.

Have THEY never heard of ZIP files?

The maps ARE downloaded zipped (or more accurately as a .cab archive, just like Windows install files are).

The TomTom programme also DOES download (or attempts to) AUTOMATICALLY, as soon as you put your log in details into Tomtom.

{snip}The bar comes up on the top right of the screen and tells me that the download will take (on average 4 Hours)

4 hours just for the Navcore update? Or are you including a map download in that?
If it's just for the software, then there's something seriously wrong with your connection.

and in the process use ALL my internet allowance for that month. That is my issue. It should not cost me a quite disproportionate amount of time, resources and to download what are supposed to be FREE updates.

I can't help feeling you are blaming your car manufacturer for the price of petrol here. If you cannot (or simply don't want to) pay for faster internet access that is hardly TomTom's fault.
Many thousands of their customers manage to download maps without any issues (it's the nature of forums such as this one that we usually only get to see the horror stories when things go wrong).
As we keep saying, if you've managed to download maps in the past for your older models, you MUST know the sort of file sizes involved.

Any of you guys who think I am throwing the towel in on this one, don't know me.

Perish the thought!
Good luck and do let us know the outcome of your legal battle.

 

[canderson]

I have to maunually stop it doing so. The bar comes up on the top right of the screen and tells me that the download will take (on average 4 Hours) and in the process use ALL my internet allowance for that month.

Ah, now there's something I hadn't considered. We don't have "time metered" internet service here - in fact, I hadn't heard of a time metered internet service since the dial-up days of yore. Even my one dial-up service here (long story) is usage based on byte count, not time. Are you saying that you're on a time plan there?

Still, the same problem would exist (and would have existed in the past) even for your older units. There's nothing new happening now - except perhaps that the TomTom servers are usually a good bit faster than they were some years ago. My Navcore downloads run to about 40MB, and TomTom Home runs about 20MB, but you know that maps will run to 1.7GB for some units.

I'd be very curious to know just what kind of bandwidth you actually have, and what your experiences were with your older units.

 

[canderson]

Hmmm... three.co.uk dongle plans... nothing time metered there that I can see.

1GB ?8.89/month
5GB ?15.99/month
15GB ?17.01/month

 

[Kenneth 12346]

On the advice of TomTom, and in consultation with Trading Standards in this area, this unit has now been returned to the retailer, and a full refund given.

Quite frankly, not worth the effort of pursuing such a USELESS company.

 

[canderson]

Quite frankly, not worth the effort of pursuing such a USELESS company.

I never did hear back about your peculiar data plan.

 

[Kenneth 12346]

Canderson. You clearly don't understand anything at all about the problems that many people in the UK have. Content with having fast broadband you ASSUME that everyone else has it too.

WRONG.:roll:

This, hopefully, MAY enlighten you, but I can assure you that I have tried to download this STUPIDLY BIG 3.4 GIGABYTE nonsense.

Just to put this into perspective, If Tomtom had wanted to send this out to users on CD discs, they would have needed to send 5 Full discs. That's how stupid it is?


Broadband dreams need government cash, MP warns | This is South Devon

I also wonder why you have quoted "3" Broadband access?
What's that got to do with anything?

 

[Kenneth 12346]

Probably because the reply was marked as "will have to approved by a moderator" and subsequently not put up.

It was, in fact, a weblink to a page explaining the very difficult internet problems that we people who live in South West England UK have with internet services.

So the reply was made.