How do those of you who have been using the post 8.3 NavCore and the 825 maps find the new, more precise 24x7 IQ Routes? I recognize that experiences will vary from location to location, but, generally, do you find that routing is much improved? For those of you that may have any basis for comparison, is the routing capability of the TomTom now equal to or better than the Garmins?
IQ Routes 24x7 Experiences?
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Still using 8.15, so there may be additional improvement in 8.25. TomTom indicates that up to 40% of your travels can show better routing. . . but that's compared to pre-IQRoutes and not other devices from other manufacturers. I use both Navteq/Garmin and TeleAtlas/TomTom quite often. As a rule, they will give the same route the vast majority of the time. My TT will sometimes give an odd route since it seems to have a big distain for left hand turns, more so than Garmin's routing engine. But sometimes, in rush hour traffic in Tampa or Orlando, it has given me a better route than my Garmin. In my estimation, maybe 5-10% of the time? At other times of the day, both devices generally give the same or nearly the same route. If you don't live in a highly-congested metro area and drive during peak times, I doubt you'll find much difference. Where the big improvement of IQRoutes lies is in regards to estimated travel times. Prior to IQR, they were very unreliable much of the time, tending to overestimate by sometimes silly amounts. Now the computed drive times are as good as, sometimes more accurate, than my Garmin, with the exception of some longer interstate drives where the Garmin shines. That's only because the nuvis adapt their estimates to your personal driving habits. I usually will drive the interstates at 10 mph over, pretty constant, where it's safe to do so. My nuvi has logged that over time and takes it into account on that highway type. Several trips of 50-120 miles have been within 1 minute or two of the original estimate. Even a 300+ mile trip to Savannah that included some local driving was off by less than 10 minutes (Can't remember the exact number now). But local speeds can vary by much more, and while an estimate on my Garmin will be pretty close, the TT930's time will be more accurate in a lot of cases.
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mvl
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In Boston, IQroutes has been absolutely amazing - so much so that I'll never consider a non IQroutes device ever again. Boston is similar to most European cities, no central planning, just a progression of cow paths turned horse paths turned roads. Throw in all the 1-ways due to narrow space between buildings, and you end up with 10 different ways to go anywhere. The tomtom has reliably found either the best way I know of from 20 years of driving here, or a better one. I find roads with better timed lights, or no lights, or sometimes traffic that's just quicker to drive through then around.
The only exception is rush hour. IQroutes doesn't seem to compensate for really really slow (eg multi-light-cycle-wait) roads. Maybe it doesn't count stopped time properly, or it just doesn't have enough time-of-day data yet. I noticed a couple of areas it avoided better in map 825 vs 815, so it is improving - but leaves a lot to be desired still in rush hour.
In my few trips to NYC - it drove the way that my former knowledge told me was best in the few areas I know. And it didn't seem to send me into traffic when I set "avoid tolls" options and took backroads to avoid their overpriced bridges.
My suspicion is that in the newer cities, there are well planned highways that are most often the obvious best way to go. So it may not be as useful in those locations.
I got a tomtom for my second car since my primary one had built in navigation (Navteq based, same as Garmin) - but the Tomtom's directions are so good I stopped using the built in nav and use the tomtom in both cars.
I think tomtom directions are in a class of their own in cities, far better than Garmin. The rural teleatlas maps are behind Navteq's maps, so because of the missing roads and lack of congestion to avoid, I think Garmins have the edge in rural areas.
The only exception is rush hour. IQroutes doesn't seem to compensate for really really slow (eg multi-light-cycle-wait) roads. Maybe it doesn't count stopped time properly, or it just doesn't have enough time-of-day data yet. I noticed a couple of areas it avoided better in map 825 vs 815, so it is improving - but leaves a lot to be desired still in rush hour.
In my few trips to NYC - it drove the way that my former knowledge told me was best in the few areas I know. And it didn't seem to send me into traffic when I set "avoid tolls" options and took backroads to avoid their overpriced bridges.
My suspicion is that in the newer cities, there are well planned highways that are most often the obvious best way to go. So it may not be as useful in those locations.
I got a tomtom for my second car since my primary one had built in navigation (Navteq based, same as Garmin) - but the Tomtom's directions are so good I stopped using the built in nav and use the tomtom in both cars.
I think tomtom directions are in a class of their own in cities, far better than Garmin. The rural teleatlas maps are behind Navteq's maps, so because of the missing roads and lack of congestion to avoid, I think Garmins have the edge in rural areas.
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MVL, you can't paint all devices using Navteq maps with the same brush. My Navigon routes differently than My Magellan did, which routes differently than my Garmin. All using the exact same map (Oct/08) Even the HP310 that I had routed differently than the TomTom, again both with (I think) the same Teleatlas map version. Maps are one facet of the puzzle, routing engine is another.
Imagine basing the effectiveness of TeleAtlas maps on the routing that Dash gave. Owners constantly complained of puzzling route choices and odd routing behavior. But they used the same TeleAtlas maps as you had last year.
Imagine basing the effectiveness of TeleAtlas maps on the routing that Dash gave. Owners constantly complained of puzzling route choices and odd routing behavior. But they used the same TeleAtlas maps as you had last year.
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Great comments here, so I'll be brief in backing up one thing that was mentioned above.
On my new 720, I only used the non-IQ Route 710 maps for a couple of days before upgrading to Navcor 8.302 and the IQ-Routing 825 maps. The 710 map would overestimate my highway drive to work by at least 10 minutes, stating it would take 49 minutes, when it really takes 37. After getting the IQ Routes, it is now right on the money at 37 minutes.
Other route estimates have been very accurate as well - including some 60 mile backroads journeys here in NC. I love my 720 (but I can think of ways to improve it...
)
On my new 720, I only used the non-IQ Route 710 maps for a couple of days before upgrading to Navcor 8.302 and the IQ-Routing 825 maps. The 710 map would overestimate my highway drive to work by at least 10 minutes, stating it would take 49 minutes, when it really takes 37. After getting the IQ Routes, it is now right on the money at 37 minutes.
Other route estimates have been very accurate as well - including some 60 mile backroads journeys here in NC. I love my 720 (but I can think of ways to improve it...
)
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iq routes
I own a 920 with the 825 maps and I want to say that on Long Island, NY the routeing of my tom tom is wonderful. The IQ routing changes just as it is supposed to according the the time of the day and the day of the week Good work tom tom keep improving.
I own a 920 with the 825 maps and I want to say that on Long Island, NY the routeing of my tom tom is wonderful. The IQ routing changes just as it is supposed to according the the time of the day and the day of the week Good work tom tom keep improving.
canderson
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I'll be over your way at the end of the month, making a run from LGA to Westbury. It will be interesting to see what changes I note since my last trip with my 720. The last trip to Westbury was a bit peculiar in the routing last time -- I usually land at about 4:30pm on a Friday, and it was clear that the 720 didn't have a clue about how LIE traffic works out there. Hoping to see an improvement, and will report back after the trip.
Well, to respond to my own post, I have now had a chance to use the new version of IQ Routes with the newest maps for the last two weekends, driving each weekend from NYC to the east end of Long Island. I have the 730 set to find the fastest route and to update the route automatically based on traffic reports that it pulls off my phone via bluetooth. My net conclusion is that the routing (assuming you are using both IQ Routes and traffic is enabled) is interesting - but I'm not sure it's too effective. Here are my observations:
1. The typical routes from my apartment to the east end of LI are either (a) over the Triboro (now RFK) Bridge, and then on to the Grand Central Parkway to the Long Island Expressway (LIE) to Route 27, or (b) through the Queens Midtown Tunnel to the LIE to Route 27, or (c) over the Midtown Bridge, to the LIE to Route 27.
2. Last week, the Tomtom directed me to the 138th Street entrance to the FDR Drive, then up to the Bruckner, the Soundview, the Whitestone Bridge, the Cross Island Parkway and, ultimately, to the LIE to Route 27 - all, ostensibly, to avoid traffic Unfortunately, the traffic on the Brucker was bumper to bumper - as bad as anything I'm used to seeing on the GCP or the LIE. So I can't believe this somewhat more roundabout route saved much if any time.
3.. This week, the Tomtom directed me down Park Avenue (right into midtown rush hour traffic - a horrible mistake) to the Queens Midtown Bridge, then down Queens Boulevard (not exactly a highway - with traffic lights), then, ultimately, to the GCP. Then it took me not to the LIE (which would have been a logical choice) but to the Cross Island Parkway to the Southern State and, ultimately, Route 27. Assuming the traffic on the usual routes out of the city was a bad as I've ever seen it, this still would not represent much of an improvement.
4. Coming home this afternoon, the Tomtom took me over the Throgs Neck Bridge and then over the Triboro (RFK) Bridge. There was absolutely no traffic coming that way, but I don't think the traffic on the more conventional routes was bad either. The downside to Tomtom's routing was that it took me over two toll bridges (and extra $5 I'll never see again) and on a longer ride - all to avoid what I don't believe was severe traffic.
The problem, I think, is not so much IQ Routes, but Tomtom's traffic service - I have a feeling that if I'd just taken the IQ Routes and only allowed the Tomtom to change courses when the traffic delay is obvious, I would be better served - at least in and around NYC. On the other hand, since you never really know what the traffic is like on the path not taken, evaluating these devices is a hit-or-miss proposition.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
1. The typical routes from my apartment to the east end of LI are either (a) over the Triboro (now RFK) Bridge, and then on to the Grand Central Parkway to the Long Island Expressway (LIE) to Route 27, or (b) through the Queens Midtown Tunnel to the LIE to Route 27, or (c) over the Midtown Bridge, to the LIE to Route 27.
2. Last week, the Tomtom directed me to the 138th Street entrance to the FDR Drive, then up to the Bruckner, the Soundview, the Whitestone Bridge, the Cross Island Parkway and, ultimately, to the LIE to Route 27 - all, ostensibly, to avoid traffic Unfortunately, the traffic on the Brucker was bumper to bumper - as bad as anything I'm used to seeing on the GCP or the LIE. So I can't believe this somewhat more roundabout route saved much if any time.
3.. This week, the Tomtom directed me down Park Avenue (right into midtown rush hour traffic - a horrible mistake) to the Queens Midtown Bridge, then down Queens Boulevard (not exactly a highway - with traffic lights), then, ultimately, to the GCP. Then it took me not to the LIE (which would have been a logical choice) but to the Cross Island Parkway to the Southern State and, ultimately, Route 27. Assuming the traffic on the usual routes out of the city was a bad as I've ever seen it, this still would not represent much of an improvement.
4. Coming home this afternoon, the Tomtom took me over the Throgs Neck Bridge and then over the Triboro (RFK) Bridge. There was absolutely no traffic coming that way, but I don't think the traffic on the more conventional routes was bad either. The downside to Tomtom's routing was that it took me over two toll bridges (and extra $5 I'll never see again) and on a longer ride - all to avoid what I don't believe was severe traffic.
The problem, I think, is not so much IQ Routes, but Tomtom's traffic service - I have a feeling that if I'd just taken the IQ Routes and only allowed the Tomtom to change courses when the traffic delay is obvious, I would be better served - at least in and around NYC. On the other hand, since you never really know what the traffic is like on the path not taken, evaluating these devices is a hit-or-miss proposition.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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mvl
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I've had the same problems in rush hour. Tomtom is great at predicting and routing with roads that drive about 10mph or faster, but it will take you down roads that are much slower than that.
I suspect a few causes:
1) Tomtom's traffic engine was built in Europe. Currently in Europe, Vodafone tells tomtom the speed of all cell phones moving around on its network, from which tomtom calculates traffic speeds. I suspect tomtom put in a "too slow" filter in its traffic input, to exclude people walking on sidewalks. It's possible that when a US traffic source (either it's traffic suppliers, or its IQroutes historical collection algorithm) tells tomtom that a road is slower than 5 MPH on average, tomtom may assume it's a pedestrian and discard the info.
2) Many of the erroneous traffic is due to areas where you have to stop for a while, then move at 10-20mph, then stop again. Maybe tomtom's collection method doesn't calculate "waiting while not moving" properly, and judges speeds based on moving only. If I counted moving time only on these stop-and-go roads then they would seem faster too.
3) Inrix (the traffic provider on the x30 series or earlier) announces flow and incidents. It's possible that tomtom's avoid incidents at all costs, as it may treat them like barriers.
I'd suggest trying the 740. It uses a much better traffic engine, that uses realtime inputs from tomtom drivers, and uses patented flow calculation to "predict" traffic (eg: if it sees too many drivers entering a highway it expects traffic will occur down the road). It is the best traffic engine available in the US - you could see if it improves any on your situation. You can see the engine working if you look at traffic on yahoo maps.
I suspect a few causes:
1) Tomtom's traffic engine was built in Europe. Currently in Europe, Vodafone tells tomtom the speed of all cell phones moving around on its network, from which tomtom calculates traffic speeds. I suspect tomtom put in a "too slow" filter in its traffic input, to exclude people walking on sidewalks. It's possible that when a US traffic source (either it's traffic suppliers, or its IQroutes historical collection algorithm) tells tomtom that a road is slower than 5 MPH on average, tomtom may assume it's a pedestrian and discard the info.
2) Many of the erroneous traffic is due to areas where you have to stop for a while, then move at 10-20mph, then stop again. Maybe tomtom's collection method doesn't calculate "waiting while not moving" properly, and judges speeds based on moving only. If I counted moving time only on these stop-and-go roads then they would seem faster too.
3) Inrix (the traffic provider on the x30 series or earlier) announces flow and incidents. It's possible that tomtom's avoid incidents at all costs, as it may treat them like barriers.
I'd suggest trying the 740. It uses a much better traffic engine, that uses realtime inputs from tomtom drivers, and uses patented flow calculation to "predict" traffic (eg: if it sees too many drivers entering a highway it expects traffic will occur down the road). It is the best traffic engine available in the US - you could see if it improves any on your situation. You can see the engine working if you look at traffic on yahoo maps.
Thanks, MVL - very interesting.
Have they announced a schedule for the roll-out of HD Traffic in the US? (Sorry if that's noted elsewhere and I missed it.)
Or is this something different than HD Traffic? I saw another post of yours talking about "Trafficcast," but I'm not sure what the difference is. If it is different - but it's provided via GPRS - can't/won't they make it available to the x30 devices?
Have they announced a schedule for the roll-out of HD Traffic in the US? (Sorry if that's noted elsewhere and I missed it.)
Or is this something different than HD Traffic? I saw another post of yours talking about "Trafficcast," but I'm not sure what the difference is. If it is different - but it's provided via GPRS - can't/won't they make it available to the x30 devices?
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mvl
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HD traffic is the system tomtom rolled out in Europe for the 740 and 940 tomtoms. They didn't launch it in the US, because they are looking for a cell phone company to provide the cell-phone-based location info in the USA.
They couldn't use Vodafone's US partner (Verizon), because:
1) Verizon is CDMA and doesn't use SIM cards
2) Verizon never deployed cell-location technology with the E911 rollout a few years ago. Instead, they installed a GPS on every phone, and it only activates if the user calls 911, or enables the always-on GPS setting.
So they opted to partner with Trafficcast in the USA, which deployed an array of delivery truck input data, highway sensors, etc. Trafficcast will add the tomtom 740's to its data input stream. Trafficcast also patented predictive flow technology which help fill in the gaps. This is the new vendor that supports the 740s and later, while Inrix supports the earlier plus traffic, and clearchannel supports the RDS-TMC receiver.
There doesn't seem to be a technical reason why HD traffic or trafficcast can't be run on prior models via a cell phone relay, but there are a few business reasons.
1) in Europe, HD runs exclusively on Vodafone's network, so it requires a vodafone sim
2) in the US, trafficcast gets paid per 740 sale, not per month. So retrofitting the data onto earlier models probably violates some trafficast licensing term.
3) Anyone who uses HD over bluetooth is one less 740 device sale
In the Netherlands, tomtom sells an HD traffic antenna, with a built-in SIM, that works on any Navcore 8 tomtom. Tomtom could sell the antenna in the US (and give trafficcast a commission on antenna sales), if they choose to. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
They couldn't use Vodafone's US partner (Verizon), because:
1) Verizon is CDMA and doesn't use SIM cards
2) Verizon never deployed cell-location technology with the E911 rollout a few years ago. Instead, they installed a GPS on every phone, and it only activates if the user calls 911, or enables the always-on GPS setting.
So they opted to partner with Trafficcast in the USA, which deployed an array of delivery truck input data, highway sensors, etc. Trafficcast will add the tomtom 740's to its data input stream. Trafficcast also patented predictive flow technology which help fill in the gaps. This is the new vendor that supports the 740s and later, while Inrix supports the earlier plus traffic, and clearchannel supports the RDS-TMC receiver.
There doesn't seem to be a technical reason why HD traffic or trafficcast can't be run on prior models via a cell phone relay, but there are a few business reasons.
1) in Europe, HD runs exclusively on Vodafone's network, so it requires a vodafone sim
2) in the US, trafficcast gets paid per 740 sale, not per month. So retrofitting the data onto earlier models probably violates some trafficast licensing term.
3) Anyone who uses HD over bluetooth is one less 740 device sale
In the Netherlands, tomtom sells an HD traffic antenna, with a built-in SIM, that works on any Navcore 8 tomtom. Tomtom could sell the antenna in the US (and give trafficcast a commission on antenna sales), if they choose to. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
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Fascinating - thanks again. Also, I just reread all the posts in this thread, and I want to thank you all for the helpful, considered responses. This forum is great.
I actually just bought my 730 two weeks ago, partially because I had understood (from one of these boards) that the 740 was going to use the same traffic service as the 730 in the US. I should have known there was a reason it was on special!
Finally, I had the 730 hard wired. Anyone know if the 740 will work with the same mini-usb power cable?
I actually just bought my 730 two weeks ago, partially because I had understood (from one of these boards) that the 740 was going to use the same traffic service as the 730 in the US. I should have known there was a reason it was on special!
Finally, I had the 730 hard wired. Anyone know if the 740 will work with the same mini-usb power cable?
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mvl
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In this press release, it says: "TrafficCast’s real-time road speed data will be combined with near real-time GPS data from TomTom’s GO 740 LIVE devices to present users with up-to-the-minute traffic speed and incident reports."
Thanks MVL. Never saw a TT statement on that, but the press release you reference does indicate sucht. Now if only we knew what "near-realtime" meant. Hopefully by next week I can do a comparison on the traffic reporting between RDS-TMC, MSNDirect, and TomTom 740 version, as all three will be available to me at once.
I would be very interested in the result of that comparison. I imagine that the "near real time" input from other 740 devices will be extremely limited for a while, since there aren't many on the streets at this point, right?
I would also be very interested in whether I can use the usb power input from my 730 hard wire install to power a 740, or whether the power requirements have changed. Also, gatorguy, would the same usb power work on a Garmin device?
I would also be very interested in whether I can use the usb power input from my 730 hard wire install to power a 740, or whether the power requirements have changed. Also, gatorguy, would the same usb power work on a Garmin device?
mvl
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I looked into your question when you first asked it - Best Buy continues to not display 740s, so I can't confirm for certain.
However, it does appear that the x40 has gone back to the activedock-style mount of the x10 series, based on the accessories available in the UK tomtom accessory store. So there's a good chance a plain old USB won't work.
mvl
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Plain old USB won't work. I checked one out today.
mvl
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After reading this carefully, it could be construed to say that the 740 gets data from both Trafficcast and other 740s. It doesn't necessarily say that Trafficcast is getting anything at all from the Tomtoms.
So it agrees with Tomtom's comments that what Trafficcast actually gets from 740s is undisclosed.
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