I feel they should offer me something free. $1.3 Billion loss

Discussion in 'General TomTom Discussion' started by Peter715, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. Peter715

    Peter715

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    With Tomtom taking a $1.3 billion loss in the 4th quarter, my question is, do you think they are going to start slashing the prices? (Financial Times)

    If they do start slashing the prices will they offer anything to us people who already have a Tomtom and may well have paid over the odds?

    If I see my Tomtom drop in price by a large amount after just having it for a couple of months, I feel they should offer me something free. 6 months sign up to one of there services, free voices, maps...

    I might be well off the mark with this but having suffered such a big loss and the economy the way it is, I can only imagine that they will have to drop the prices which will leave people like me and you fuming that we didn't wait a few months longer to buy the same GPS for a cheaper price.

    Any thoughts? can we start a campaign for us existing users if they do start slashing prices?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
    Peter715, Feb 24, 2009
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  2. Peter715

    drledger

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    Interesting concept. Though I doubt the check is in the mail let us see what other forum members think.
     
    drledger, Feb 24, 2009
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  3. Peter715

    mvl Moderator

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    The loss is an accounting loss only.

    The combined teleatlas/tomtom entity made pro-forma earnings of 0.57 EUR/share. The loss was due to a mark-to-market write-down of the teleatlas division which they are characterizing (for accounting) as a fully owned separate company.

    They announced a few months ago that device pricing is holding steady after the holidays, so I doubt any discounts are coming.
     
    mvl, Feb 24, 2009
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  4. Peter715

    Gilbert

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    I doubt there is going to be a severe drop in price. Of course, each manufacturer is checking what other manufacturers are doing and are likely to follow as to remain comptetitive.

    Prices are relative. You are in the lectronics field and it does change over a short period. Usually for lower prices with the exception of RAM which has been known to move up and down depending on supply and demand. When some factories were hit by storms, the prices show right up...
     
    Gilbert, Feb 24, 2009
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  5. Peter715

    doctormstein1

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    Any other company where their is a Beta program they would give something free In the case of tom tom maybe free north american map upgrade. My impression is that tom tom is cheap
     
    doctormstein1, Feb 25, 2009
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  6. Peter715

    Peter715

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    But...

    But $1.3 Billion!!! Surely they have to do something!

    Not to mention that there is a crime wave going around where Sat Navs are getting stolen more then ever. I like everyone's vote of confidants but I think it's "Turn left fool, down the toilet." This time next month my Tomtom will be at least $100-$150 cheaper and if that does happen I will be pissed!

    I should have gone to circuit city or Woolworths!
     
    Peter715, Feb 25, 2009
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  7. Peter715

    Peter715

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    I'm liking your answer! If everything drops and we get nothing, no intensive to keep with TomTom, they are proving they are CHEAP and don't care. I mean they already have us do their map updates!!!:rolleyes:
     
    Peter715, Feb 25, 2009
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  8. Peter715

    Malouff

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    Peter715,

    The release of the x40 may cause retailers to start slashing the prices on current GO's.

    Pressure from Gamin's Lifetime maps and Navigon Fresh Maps may cause TomTom to offer their own map subscriptions like they do in Europe but I doubt they will ever offer lifetime maps like Garmin.

    I also doubt they will offer anything to people who already have a TomTom.

    It is just like Maps if you buy a map update today and new maps are released tomorrow I doubt they will offer you the newer maps as you have already paid and received the older maps.

    If you do however have a complaint you should file a question with their support and it never hurts to ask for some type of compensation if you think you are entitled to it.
     
    Malouff, Feb 25, 2009
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  9. Peter715

    Peter715

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    I'm just letting off some steam really. I'm not going to go complain to TomTom yet as nothing as actually happened. Just reading the loss they took of $1,3 Billion I don't see how they can't afford to not start slashing prices.

    Thus meaning I bought my Tomtom at the wrong time and I just think it would be a nice thing and a good marketing thing to do would be to give back to their already standing customers as well as adding new customers with great deals. I'm living in cokco land but that's how I feel.

    I also feel if we all speak up and tell Tomtom not to forget the customers they already have by giving us some good intensives they might listen.
     
    Peter715, Feb 25, 2009
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  10. Peter715

    RobertB

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    Cry me a river. :) You're making an argument as old as mankind: "I agreed to the deal yesterday and thought it was fine. Now someone else got a better deal, OMG!"

    If the deal was good yesterday, then it's good today. Just because someone else got a better model out of the bargain bin, you're no poorer than you were before.

    I guess it's human nature, though... reference the Parable of the Eleventh Hour. If there had been TomToms available in Biblical times, I'm sure someone would have complained because their neighbor got his for half a denarius less.
     
    RobertB, Feb 25, 2009
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  11. Peter715

    Peter715

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    I hear what you're saying and I know your right but...

    Most places, even airlines offer, "find a better deal and we'll match it" type things. If, because of TomTom buying TA and and them losing money causes them to slash prices, why should the people who have just bought one have to suffer?

    I'm just saying that they should look after their existing customers and keep us loyal. There are plenty of things they could offer their existing customers. I would like some more voices, I would like a map of a country I will probably never visit, I would like a coupon of a new case, something!!!
     
    Peter715, Feb 25, 2009
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  12. Peter715

    GAW

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    So lets see here - the way for TomTom to climb out of a financial hole is to deeply discount units and eliminate most of their remaining margin. ..If they cut prices enough to cut their margins in half - even if they then sold twice as many units - by that measure alone they would be standing still.

    Maybe what they need to do is to take a fresh look at their current and potential market value proposition and come up with a strategy that is more in line with the current GPS market (which is increasingly migrating to PDA's - with only minimal participation by TT), and to where it is heading.

    To maintain profitability in their dedicated GPS devices - they need to keep rolling out more valuable (to users) features and making it worthwhile to users (and profitable to TT) for existing users to be able to participate also. Map subscriptions make sense - new full priced maps every 3 months by themselves do not.

    At the same time - since they can't stop the rapid developments with PDA offerings - they need to get with it and not be totally left out of that segment. At the same time, their newer and upgradable stand-alone units have to offer clear (and not stagnant) advantages feature-wise from the PDA devices - or they will be buried.
     
    GAW, Feb 25, 2009
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  13. Peter715

    dsb9938

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    Sorry, I'm a cheap bastard. I love spending money, but I hate wasting it. I'll search forever to find a better deal online. But once I pull the trigger, I don't expect to do better the next day, unless the vedor offers some sort of price assurance.

    All of this is just hot air and petulance.

    You spent the money, make the most of it.
     
    dsb9938, Feb 25, 2009
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  14. Peter715

    Peter715

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    I guess I'm not going to win this one and nobody else cares that we get the raw end of the deal.

    As I cry myself to sleep tonight, I hope you're all happy!
     
    Peter715, Feb 25, 2009
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  15. Peter715

    gatorguy

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    GAW, it's too late. TomTom has already pulled themselves from any off-board navigation app and may even be pulling out of the on-board mobile solution. They announced they cannot commit the resources to compete in the mobile marketplace with Garmin, Telenav or others. Forget any navigation apps from Tomtom for phones or PDA's. IMHO, by taking a huge risk and buying TeleAtlas, they've now put themselves in a very precarious position where it may be some time before they can go back to a serious competition with Garmin. We may see some bargain-basement pricing on the entry level models in the first half of the year, with TomTom bloated with pnd's that went unsold in the 4th quarter. But they signaled they won't be making much in the way of further price reductions on the current models this year. Even the rumored map subscription for North America may remain just that IMO. How much more of a loss can TomTom absorb from TA? They aren't selling many maps at all outside of what TomTom themselves are buying, and that's just trading dollars. If Navteq sees the writing on the wall, which I'm sure they do, you can expect them to do all they can to put pricing pressures on TA. After all, Navteq is profitable. TA is not, losing even more money last year than in 2007. I see very dark days ahead for TomTom.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
    gatorguy, Feb 26, 2009
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  16. Peter715

    mvl Moderator

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    I'm not as pessimistic. The Navteq division of Nokia lost money in Q4, so the economy's affecting everyone.

    IQroutes is the only technology that gives useful urban directions, and as this realization moves from us early adopters to the everyday urbanite, I expect Tomtom market share to take off in the US.

    I have the best direction engine Navteq offers (the Honda/Alpine speed-remembering nav) but it still pales in comparison to my Tomtom. Tomtom mentions independent research that shows IQroutes to save 12% in time & fuel, and that matches my experience.

    I agree that Tomtom is in a high-risk situation due to their heavy debt load, but they still made pro-forma earnings in 4Q08, which is a substantial feat for any company.
     
    mvl, Feb 26, 2009
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  17. Peter715

    gatorguy

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    I hope you are right about companies flocking to TA for maps. But Nokia is developing their own speed-enhanced map add-on, already making it available in parts of Europe. Their Traffic Master data is beginning to offer routing based on time of day broken down in 15 monute increments. Sounds a lot like IQRoutes, doesn't it? With the aide of Nokia gps-enabled phone data, Navteq tests of an HDTraffic system are ongoing in California, so expect a Navteq HD traffic solution soon. So IMO, TA took the early lead in historical speed enhanced mapping, but Nokia is fast catching up. Two years from now I expect we'll all be arguing about whose speed data is best, just as arguments abound on the NT/TA map quality now. That leaves a very small window of opportunity.
     
    gatorguy, Feb 26, 2009
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  18. Peter715

    mvl Moderator

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    I haven't been able to track down too much info on traffic master. My real question is where Nokia's speed data will come from. Most Americans:

    1) don't have Nokia phones
    2) don't have their phone's data plan
    3) don't plug their phone into a computer too often

    Nokia would have to develop a reason like Mapshare for their phones/devices to "phone home" to get good historical data.

    My guess is that they'll focus on a HDtraffic equivalent. Tomtom has 95% of the technology ready I really don't know why they don't launch HDtraffic in the US to beat Nokia to market.
     
    mvl, Feb 26, 2009
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  19. Peter715

    gatorguy

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    Their data comes from a mix of sources: GPS-enabled commercial vehicles and taxi's, thousands of road sensors, highway probe data and soon to augmented with Nokia (and perhaps other) anonymous speed and location data received from mobile phones. TT's HD traffic relies a lot on the same type of mobile phone data that Nokia envisions using.

    Just a guess, but I think that TT may need to negotiate with a US carrier using GSM/GPSR network protocols, which currently means AT&T or T-Mobile.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
    gatorguy, Feb 26, 2009
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  20. Peter715

    Peter715

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    Lets buy Tomtom and run it the way it should be run!!!

    Everybody on here is more knowledgeable then anybody I have ever spoken to at Tomtom.

    Who's up for getting a bank loan (LOL), offering TA 15 cents on the dollar (LOL) and then taking over Tomtom and making it good for everyone again? We will play paper, scissors, stones for who sits as president. Even better, we'll do some kind of "amazing race" and first to hit the finishing line having used their tomtom to get there takes the biggest percent in the company! What do you recon? Tomtom revaluation?
     
    Peter715, Feb 26, 2009
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