How to listen to TomTom's circular arguments and get them to hang up on you...

[Andy Somnifac]

According to TomTom's website, each of their devices comes with a "30 Day Latest Map Guarantee". Seems easy enough, right? Wrong. When you have one of the TomTom Eclipse units for the AVN2210p things are never easy with TomTom. Here's a lengthy email I just wrote to The Consumerist. It should get all the points of the story across:

Dear Consumerist,

I am writing you today after a couple lengthy conversations with the TomTom "customer support" center.

The background of the story is as follows:

In the beginning of May I purchased an Eclipse AVN2210p mkII stereo headunit for my car. For those unfamiliar with the unit, it is a head unit that is marketed by Eclipse that contains an integrated, but removable, TomTom personal navigation device (referred to as the 'PND' from here on out). Various audio features are controlled via the PND, as is Bluetooth calling, etc. The PND seems to be closely based upon the TomTom One series device.

My problems, though I did not know it at the time, began shortly after purchase. I went to the TomTom website to see what software and drivers were available for the unit. I found the following buttons to download the TomTom Home software that handles software updates, personalization, etc:

​

Note the different supported items on each button. The button on the left lists various pieces of TomTom hardware (and is TomTom Home version 2.x), while the one on the right states that it is compatible with TomTom NAVIGATOR 6 (and is TomTom Home version 1.5). NAVIGATOR 6 is a standalone application for PDAs, smart phones, etc. The TomTom Eclipse PND seems to be a little bit of a stepchild on the TomTom site, and since it seems to be based upon the One series, it seemed that the proper download link was the one on the left.

Once downloaded I was able to install the software, download any system software updates (a weekly GPS satellite location file, and one recent full system update), as well as downloading various voices, start up screens, and other bits to personalize the unit. When I attempted to check to updated maps, TomTom Home2 stated that there were no updated maps available. I found this disappointing, but figured due to how long the system hardware seemed to lag behind the map support was lagging behind. Over the intervening time between then and now I periodically plugged the PND in to my computer to check for map updates. None were forthcoming.

Fast forward to yesterday when I wrote TomTom an email to check to see if updated maps were ever going to be released for my device (since it finally received a system update last week). It is then that I am informed that there was a newer map available, even though TomTom Home2 told me otherwise. I was then informed that my device is not supported under TomTom Home2 (even though system updates, personalization updates, etc. all work), and that I would need to download Tom Tom Home 1.5. Now, please take this chance to refer back to the screen-shot linked above. To have guessed that the software required to check for map updates was the link on the right would have required me to completely pull it out of thin air. To have guessed that the version for other TomTom hardware devices was the proper version seemed logical then, and still does. I've asked a couple coworkers (all of a technical nature) and they all agreed that they would have made the same decision. So, I was being provided incorrect information by the TomTom home2 software and was never able to exercise my 30 day latest map guarantee in the first 30 days of ownership.

This brings up to problem number two. While conversing with the TomTom agents today (I spoke with two agents and two supervisors) I was told that my device was not a TomTom device and that it was not eligible for the latest map guarantee anyway. I was slightly confused by this considering that the unit says 'TomTom' all over the outside of, all over serveral screens in the software on the device (startup splash screens, etc), came with a product registration on a handy little card from TomTom, AND the fact that TomTom is more than willing to take money from me for various services (traffic, checking gas prices, etc.) and maps (both updates and maps that did not originally come with my device). Please see the images below for an example of part of the confusion:

(Yes, I blurred what I would guess is the serial number, just in case)

It looks to me like TomTom had a hand in the design of this device, in addition to being willing to take money from me to provide me with various services and updates. This would seem to me to indicate that they have some kind responsibility to users of this device. Now, if they had washed their hands of the device, not included TomTom branding on the device, and refused to take money from me for updates and services, I would agree with them. However, this is not the case.

This brings us to the last point of contention about the map update guarantee. Both supervisors I spoke to today agreed with each other that the unit was not eligible for the update guarantee, as stated previous. They stated that only certain TomTom units were eligible for the guarantee. Even if this unit was a "real TomTom unit" (which they say it isn't), they reserve the right to deny the update to any user they see fit. The problem with this lies on the page found at the URL: http://www.tomtom.com/latestmap/information.php. I've included a screen-shot below in the event it is changed:

Nowhere on there does it state that specific units are not eligible, or that they can deny the user the upgrade unless the maps found to be on the device were 9 months or more out of date. When I used that as a counterargument with the TomTom supervisors, I was referred to the following page: http://www.tomtom.com/support/index.php?FID=7952&Lid=4. Again, I've included a screen-shot:

This does include a list of models that includes the phrase: "All newer TomTom devices." This would strike me as including models that currently in the lineup. I can walk into Circuit City and purchase this unit brand new off the shelf, as well as order it from Crutchfield. We're not talking about closeout stores, we're talking about mass market electronic stores. That would strike me as a current product, and covered under the "All newer TomTom devices" category.

After going back and forth for quite a while with the two TomTom supervisors, it turned into a circular agument with TomTom stating that the TomTom Eclipse PND is not on the list found on http://www.tomtom.com/support/index.php?FID=7952&Lid=4 (which I disagree with), I attempted to get them to note that the other page outlining the guarantee (http://www.tomtom.com/latestmap/information.php) stated no such requirement. The second call ended with the supervisor refusing to escalate the call any farther (he said there is no customer relations or similar department, which I found hard to believe) and him hanging up on me. There's no other way to put it, that was supremely poor customer service.

My request was simple: Honor the latest map guarantee, allow me to get the latest map, and I will continue to be a TomTom customer. I have no problem purchasing map updates in the future. I'm just trying to get what the TomTom website states that I'm entitled to. TomTom would even make money in the long run if they were to actually use logic and honor the guarantee. If the guarantee is not honored, I can promise I will never pay another dime for an updated map in the future, nor subscribe to any other TomTom service (which I was planning on doing).

If the Consumerist has any suggestions on how to continue from here, since the call center is a complete dead end, I would love to hear them.

If you made it all the way through without falling asleep, I'm amazed. So, does anyone out there have any fun stories to share, or advice on a next move for me?

 

[steelwoolghandi]

sorry about your problems man, I feel for you. Not sure where you are but you can try to contact them again and let them know you will take your problem to the FTC (Federal Trade Comm) if they do not do something about it? Its not a heavy threat but its something. Website: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ you already have the paperwork so you could just submit it. You can also try your states Attorney General they also look into fraud claims (and you have a case for fraud).
Also try this: http://www.consumer-advocacy.org/ They can also help.
This site has gotten some people results: http://www.thesqueakywheel.com/ViewComplaints.cfm

Sorry no cut and dried answer but hope this info helps

 

[theagent]

In my opinion, map updates should ALWAYS be free. It's like buying Microsoft Windows and being charged for every update. I understand them charging for NEW maps. but updates for existing maps? come on.

regardless, I don't see what the big deal is. You could always just "find" these maps elsewhere on the web.

good luck with your problem.

 

[Andy Somnifac]

The fact that I can find the maps for free is irrelivant. It is the principle behind it.

Throughout the calls I remained calm, and I even appologized to the agents that first handled the calls for their misfortune of getting me as the customer. The supervisors spoke over me repeatedly, repeatedly cut me off, and then finally hung up on me. At no point was I abusive or threatening, and even made it a point to inform the 2nd supervisor I spoke to that I was willing to sit on hold as long as it took for him to find me someone else to talk to. I expressed that I did not wish to end the call, and that he was doing so against the customer's wishes. In the support center I work, that would lead to a walk out the door.

Had they have asked "Well, what maps are on your device?" I would have responded with the version number. If they had have then looked up the release date on that version release and found that they were more than 9 months out of date at the point of purchase, we would have ended the conversation then and there, as that is noted on the website (I don't have a release date for the 665 maps; if anyone does I'd love to know). But they didn't. They continued to tell me that it wasn't a TomTom product, and then tell me that they were more than willing to take my money to get updated maps.

They need to either support the device like a TomTom product or wash their hands of it completely and refer me to Eclipse for sales of new maps and TomTom Plus subscriptions. You can't claim it's not your product and then stick your hands in my pocket.

 

[Buddharay]

your GPS device IS a tomtom device, but since you bought it as a smaller part of the larger overall Eclipse brand head unit, you didn't technically purchase the product from tomtom (which it looks like is required to get the map guarantee). it's like complaining to coke about a promotion they're running with bottles because of the fountain drink that came with your mcdonald's value meal.