Help with odd POI issue - red square plus name mangled

[dmunsil]

I'm seeing a weird issue, or rather someone else is seeing a weird issue on their One XL with OV2/BMP files that work fine on my Go 510.

When he installs my OV2 files, he gets the categories listed with a period in front of their names (like ". Airport" instead of "Airport"), and a red square for the icon. And when he selects the categories, it says something like "No POIs found!"

On my Go 510, everything works tickety-boo. I'm currently working through testing the following hypotheses:

- One of the POI uses a character in the name that the One XL doesn't like
- One of the POI has a name that's too long
- The file name itself has a character the One XL doesn't like
- The BMP files aren't in a format the One XL likes (they're 24x24 pixel 24bit BMPs)
- He's using a Mac, and somehow the Mac is corrupting the files in some way. This seems unlikely.

Anyone else have an idea or suggestion?

If you want to try the files yourselves (they're POI for the Walt Disney World area), they're on this page:

http://www.mousesavers.com/gps.html

Or here's the direct link to the zip file of OV2/BMPs:

http://www.mousesavers.com/MouseSavers_TomTom.zip

Again, these exact files work fine on a Go 510.

Don Munsil

 

[baggss]

This is a Mac thing, I've seen it on mine.

If he scrolls down in the POI selection list he will see the actual POI with it's picture. He needs to make sure the .whatever file with the red dot is unchecked in his POIs and that the actual POI is checked. The POI will work fine but the .whatever files are a bit fo an annoyance. I've noticed that if the .whatever file is checked, none of the POIs will appear on the map. I suspect this "shadow" file has something to do with how the Mac handles the desktop integration and the .DSstore files for it's system. The Mac won't se the "shadow" file, but the TT does,

I'm not sure what the icon format is for the One, but it may be 22 x 22. He can resize it with an app like Graphics Converter.

 

[dmunsil]

Just to take this full-circle, and so people Google searching for this problem actually find a solution, it turns out that it was, in fact, the Mac thing. The Mac produces these extra files that begin with "._" when you copy files to a non-Mac drive using the main Mac file interface.

If you use a third-party file manager, this isn't a problem. In general they don't create these extra files, and any files that have been created in the past can be deleted.

One file manager I found that seems to work (and is free) is MuCommander, which is at www.mucommander.com.

Thanks for the assistance!

Don

 

[baggss]

I also discovered that if you go into the TT "Manage POIs" preference you can delete the .whatever POIs and it won't impact the actual POIs. This will free up some space on your TT as well. I deleted all mine with no negative impact.

 

[The Spook]

When he installs my OV2 files, he gets the categories listed with a period in front of their names (like ". Airport" instead of "Airport"), and a red square for the icon.

This issue is caused by the .naming! You see a red square whenever the icon name and the .ov2 name do not match. They must be identical. I use a 'proper' computer (donning flame-proof suit now) so I don't understand this mac re-naming thing!

I can tell you that if you want the files to work on a TT, the whatever.ov2 name must be identical to the whatever.bmp name.

 

[dhn]

I use a 'proper' computer (donning flame-proof suit now) so I don't understand this mac re-naming thing! .

Oh my gosh! What have you started!!!!

 

[dmunsil]

It's not a "renaming" thing, it's an "extra files" thing.

If you have two files, let's say "Grocery.ov2" and "Grocery.bmp" on a Mac, and drag and drop them on your TomTom folder using the normal Mac file interface, it will create four files:

._Grocery.ov2
._Grocery.bmp
Grocery.ov2
Grovery.bmp

The "._" files have resource and metadata information that is normally stored in the Mac directory and in the file's "resource fork," which is a Mac-only idea that doesn't exist in other file systems.

In fact, OV2 and BMP files don't really need any metadata and have no resource fork, but the Mac creates those files anyway.

So on your TomTom, you get two new categories, "Grocery" and ". Grocery". Apparently it converts the underscores to spaces for display. The ". Grocery" category is associated with a "BMP" file that isn't an actual bitmap, so it has the red square icon. And it doesn't have a real OV2 file, so there are no POIs found. The normal Grocery category exists, and works, and has the right icon.

Ultimately I agree, though. If you do Google searches, you'll find that this "feature" screws up not only TomToms, but just about any other flash-based device, like non-Apple MP3 players, photo frames, etc. It's an incredibly stupid way of handling their resource fork data, because the resource file has the same extension as the main file. The resource files should have an extension of ".Mac_res" or something like that. Then most devices would just ignore them.

It's crap like this that made me give up the Mac about 12 years ago. What the Mac does well, it does really well. But there are all kinds of areas where their engineering isn't the best. For a lot of people, it's a great machine, until they, you know, try to save some files on an SD card. Who would want to do that?

Don

 

[baggss]

This issue is caused by the .naming! You see a red square whenever the icon name and the .ov2 name do not match. They must be identical. I use a 'proper' computer (donning flame-proof suit now) so I don't understand this mac re-naming thing!

I can tell you that if you want the files to work on a TT, the whatever.ov2 name must be identical to the whatever.bmp name.

No, the issue is not caused by the name. It is caused by how the MasOS interacts with a FAT formated disc. The work around I stated in my last post works just fine to get rid of the "extra" files. I get the same thing if I upload MP3 files to my TT directly from the Mac vice via the TTH software.

I'm not going to touch the comment about a "proper" computer. I like this place and don't really want to start some sort of flame fest.

 

[will381796]

It's not a "renaming" thing, it's an "extra files" thing.

If you have two files, let's say "Grocery.ov2" and "Grocery.bmp" on a Mac, and drag and drop them on your TomTom folder using the normal Mac file interface, it will create four files:

._Grocery.ov2
._Grocery.bmp
Grocery.ov2
Grovery.bmp

The "._" files have resource and metadata information that is normally stored in the Mac directory and in the file's "resource fork," which is a Mac-only idea that doesn't exist in other file systems.

In fact, OV2 and BMP files don't really need any metadata and have no resource fork, but the Mac creates those files anyway.

So on your TomTom, you get two new categories, "Grocery" and ". Grocery". Apparently it converts the underscores to spaces for display. The ". Grocery" category is associated with a "BMP" file that isn't an actual bitmap, so it has the red square icon. And it doesn't have a real OV2 file, so there are no POIs found. The normal Grocery category exists, and works, and has the right icon.

Ultimately I agree, though. If you do Google searches, you'll find that this "feature" screws up not only TomToms, but just about any other flash-based device, like non-Apple MP3 players, photo frames, etc. It's an incredibly stupid way of handling their resource fork data, because the resource file has the same extension as the main file. The resource files should have an extension of ".Mac_res" or something like that. Then most devices would just ignore them.

It's crap like this that made me give up the Mac about 12 years ago. What the Mac does well, it does really well. But there are all kinds of areas where their engineering isn't the best. For a lot of people, it's a great machine, until they, you know, try to save some files on an SD card. Who would want to do that?

Don

Just drag and drop the music files onto the SD card using Finder. I do this on my Mac...NO PROBLEMS!

 

[dmunsil]

Maybe they've fixed it for MP3's in the latest OS. Or maybe your MP3 player handles the extra files without a problem. Certainly there are a lot of web pages out there complaining about the extra "._" files with their MP3 player or photo frame.

A sampling:

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=44474
http://macintouch.com/readerreports/macosx10_4_2/topic3705.html
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6220396

Don

 

[baggss]

Just drag and drop the music files onto the SD card using Finder. I do this on my Mac...NO PROBLEMS!

See, when I do that, I get the .Songname file in the music list on my TT. I discovered that if I upload the mp3 files via TT home I can then do whatever I want with the files from the Finder just fine.

 

[dmunsil]

A followup: my comments on the Mac overall were intemperate and irrelevant. The Mac can work fine with any number of devices, including the TomTom, with a few workarounds and caveats here and there. It's no worse than the kind of stuff you have to deal with in any number of other areas in Windows. I didn't mean to flame; I'm just a little grumpy.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to get up out of my rocking chair and tell those darn kids to stay off my lawn.

Don

 

[The Spook]

I'm not going to touch the comment about a "proper" computer. I like this place and don't really want to start some sort of flame fest.

Err, I was being (or trying to be) humorous! No offence intended to any Apple fans.

Also, sorry for being a little confused about the issue. As I said, I don't know the foibles of .Macs. The red square icon was the clue for me. That is what you see whenever there isn't a .bmp to display (I didn't also realise it was associated with a non-existent .ov2 as well). I still don't understand what possible benefit a resource file can provide? Two files instead of one? Why?? Why not store the metadata in the file (if the type can handle it, if not, don't bother)?

 

[baggss]

Err, I was being (or trying to be) humorous! No offence intended to any Apple fans.

Also, sorry for being a little confused about the issue. As I said, I don't know the foibles of .Macs. The red square icon was the clue for me. That is what you see whenever there isn't a .bmp to display (I didn't also realise it was associated with a non-existent .ov2 as well). I still don't understand what possible benefit a resource file can provide? Two files instead of one? Why?? Why not store the metadata in the file (if the type can handle it, if not, don't bother)?

All good questions. I wish I had good answers. I have seen the red square issue with the mismatched file names or no BMP as well.

No worries...