GO 740 LIVE traffic service?

[NorFowl]

Anyone know how this device handles traffic info access? I can't tell from the literature I've found.

It doesn't appear to use RDS-TMC, and nothing is said about a "Bluetooth-compatible phone" that I can find, so that would imply some sort of built-in WAN access, like GPRS cell service. If so, I assume that would require getting an additional phone number from my cell provider, etc.

Anyone have the full scoop on this device yet?

 

[mvl]

Built in GPRS modem/antenna - Tomtom provides a jaspar wireless SIM card so you don't need your own carrier/data plan. Just have to pay the LIVE $10/month to Tomtom.

See here.

 

[mikealder]

It has a GPRS modem built in to the body of the nav unit complete with its very own sim card, once the free trial period has expired you get charged a fee per month to use the Live services - you don't need any interaction with a mobile phone for data or the RDS-TMC accessory its all in the 740 Live - Mike

 

[NorFowl]

Slick... just as it should be! Man, I've fought that phone interface too many hours.
Wonder why $10/mo when Traffic Service subscription is $60/yr. Oh well.
I don't have any experience with the Jasper SIM, but I assume they ride on various available networks as their coverage map seems pretty extensive.
Thanks for the input guys.

 

[mvl]

Wonder why $10/mo when Traffic Service subscription is $60/yr.

Trafficcast, the vendor used for LIVE traffic, cut a deal with tomtom. In exchange for supplying real time tomtom 740 user data to trafficcast (which increases its product quality when it sells to other logistics companies), tomtom pays no monthly fee to trafficcast. Trafficcast gets a 1-time per-device fee for each 740 sold.

I assume the $10 per month covers the jaspar data costs, plus profit for tomtom.

 

[NorFowl]

Sounds right, mvl.
I was reading a review of the TT740 today and they made a point of how good (read quick and accurate) the traffice reporting is. Major road construction just about anything seems to pick up OK but it's those stack-ups after a wreck, etc. that can really catch you out. The further ahead you know about them, the better your options are.
Sounds like Trafficast does a good job.

 

[gatorguy]

I'm going to hold off on posting too much about the traffic. But what you see on Yahoo/TrafficCast is NOT what you'll see on the TomTom. I think I might understand what's going on, but until I can get a second opinion from a well-connected and knowledgeable friend of mine, I can't answer for certain. Overall, traffic (so far) on the 740 has been underwhelming.

 

[doctormstein1]

sim card

Just a reminder that you still need a compatable cell for blue tooth use when you want to receive and call numbers on your cell or tomtom.

 

[mvl]

But what you see on Yahoo/TrafficCast is NOT what you'll see on the TomTom.

That's a shame. Let us know what you ultimately find out. Trafficcast provided the best data of all the major webmap-traffic vendors. It's a shame if all tomtom gets is "trafficcast lite"

 

[Michael Quinlan]

That's a shame. Let us know what you ultimately find out. Trafficcast provided the best data of all the major webmap-traffic vendors. It's a shame if all tomtom gets is "trafficcast lite"

I have a 920 with a fuel price subscription that just expired, and a TomTom' PLUS Traffic subscription that is about to expire. So I'm in a position to decide if I want to renew my subscriptions at a cost of $80, and continue maintaining my Boost Mobile phone solely for use with these subscriptions, or "upgrade" to the 740 Live. The monthly cost ends up being the same when you add the cost of the phone/plan, so my primary consideration is the quality of the traffic data. So I picked up a 740 Live yesterday, and did a brief side-by-side comparison.

My brief comparison showed that PLUS traffic lists more "incidents" than Live does, though I don't know if the geographic area relative to your current position is the same. I did note that at least some of the PLUS incidents that are missing in Live don't have any flow or delay information, and that PLUS seems to break continuous flow data into smaller segments, whereas Live appears to treat them as one.

I've noticed enough oddities with PLUS traffic, including traffic indicated where there is none, and traffic indicated in the opposite direction of the actual traffic congestion, that I'm willing to give Live a shot, as I think the concept is good.

I do see a LOT more non-green flow data on both Google Maps and Yahoo Maps than I do with Live, especially on smaller roads. It will truly be a shame, as you say, if Live is really "lite".

 

[mvl]

For those ho have the 740, could you help test a theory that the "trafficcast lite" info coming through is because Tomtom may be saving Jaspar data costs, and not sending flow data when the speeds match the predictable IQroutes.

One idea is to test known areas of the <10mph IQroutes bug (IQroutes doesn't properly report predictable traffic < 10mph). I identified three sideroads with the IQ2 bug in boston that are covered by yahoo trafficcast and not inrix. If LIVE traffic reliably reports these areas, then there's a good chance they're just doing the above filtering.

- 201 Frontage Rd, Boston MA (southeastbound) at 5:30 pm weekdays
- 322 Riverway, Boston, MA (northeastbound) at 8:30 am weekdays
- 1180 Boylston St, Brookline, MA (eastbound) at 8:00 am weekdays

The last spot is the only one fo the threee that is also on google traffic's mystery provider (trafficcast-level coverage, but different streets). Perhaps it's the new expanded inrix?

If anyone can test these spots in LIVE traffic, it may help unravel this mystery. I haven't found a 740 on display in any Best Buy that can pick up a GPS signal, so I haven't been able to test.

Also, now that I've got PLUS I'm going to check it out too. So far, no expanded Inrix yet.

 

[dhn]

mvl......

I've sent you an email related to this (since you have pm's turned off).

Please look for it. Thanks.

 

[Michael Quinlan]

...If anyone can test these spots in LIVE traffic, it may help unravel this mystery. I haven't found a 740 on display in any Best Buy that can pick up a GPS signal, so I haven't been able to test...

I tried the address on Frontage Rd around 5:30pm on 5/1/2009 and saw no traffic data in that area. Nor did I see any traffic data anywhere near there. I did this by planning a route that took me past the Frontage Rd address, but I suspect that since I'm actually located hundreds of miles away, I never got any traffic data for that area. I also tried this with IQ Routes both enabled and disabled, and saw no difference with regard to traffic, but the estimated travel time was noticeably different..

I attached a couple of screen images so you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[tflight]

but I suspect that since I'm actually located hundreds of miles away, I never got any traffic data for that area.

That is correct. It will only report traffic within the regions near your current location-- even if you use the 'Prepare Route' function to change the starting location or use HOME and the 'set location' function. I haven't seen any way to force it to view traffic outside of the region the device is currently sitting in. Looks like I'm going to have to fly across the country to see if it works in other areas too.

 

[mvl]

I have PLUS traffic, and the traffic on routes.tomtom.com don't match what I see on my device.

Can those who have a 740 confirm if the traffic on routes.tomtom.com matches their LIVE traffic? If so, that will be a way to evaluate out-of-area coverage.

 

[Michael Quinlan]

That is correct. It will only report traffic within the regions near your current location-- even if you use the 'Prepare Route' function to change the starting location or use HOME and the 'set location' function. I haven't seen any way to force it to view traffic outside of the region the device is currently sitting in. Looks like I'm going to have to fly across the country to see if it works in other areas too.

PLUS traffic actually DOES show traffic based on the set location in Home. I don't see this capability being useful beyond evaluation of LIVE traffic, but I'm disappointed that it doesn't work like PLUS does.

 

[Michael Quinlan]

I have PLUS traffic, and the traffic on routes.tomtom.com don't match what I see on my device.

Can those who have a 740 confirm if the traffic on routes.tomtom.com matches their LIVE traffic? If so, that will be a way to evaluate out-of-area coverage.

For the NY/Metro area at the time of this post, traffic shown on http://routes.tomtom.com appears to agree with traffic shown on my 740 LIVE. Once exception I did note was that one road segment colored RED on the web site was colored YELLOW on my device, but the location and length of the congestion appeared to be the same.

 

[mvl]

For the NY/Metro area at the time of this post, traffic shown on TomTom Route Planner - get the most accurate, up-to-date routes appears to agree with traffic shown on my 740 LIVE. Once exception I did note was that one road segment colored RED on the web site was colored YELLOW on my device, but the location and length of the congestion appeared to be the same.

Thanks, I suspected this was the case, since it was 1) different from my PLUS usage, and 2) had included one sideroad that was only covered trafficcast and not inrix. Thanks for validating.

I had been doing a lot of checking on my own on these three addresses, and I found Yahoo maps trafficcast captured two out of three properly (the riverway doesn't allow trucks, I suspect trafficcast didn't get any input). But routes.tomtom.com didn't capture any of them. So the limited infomration is certainly not due to IQroutes filtering.

Here's my conclusion based on the above:
Trafficcast provides three things: historical flow, realtime flow, realtime incidents, and predicted flow.

I suspect tomtom didn't bother inputting historical flow from trafficcast. IQroutes history is far superior to trafficcast history from a data coverage perspective (virtually 100% in cities), and other than the <10mph bug, my experience in Boston is that IQroutes urban data is almost perfect.

This is the primary difference between yahoo trafficast and tomtom LIVE "trafficcast lite". It appears that LIVE traffic is only broadcasting realtime flow/incident data to tomtoms.

Now the second concern is the quality of the realtime flow/incident data. LIVE traffic has significantly less incident data, and significantly less flow granularity than Inrix/PLUS traffic. I'd say a factor of 3 to 1. But LIVE covers secondary roads, where PLUS traffic doesn't. My guess is that trafficcast has far fewer fleet inputs than Inrix, but that could change as each 740 LIVE device is sold.

More doesn't mean better, but I have only seen a few complaints about PLUS accuracy, so I'm assuming that more PLUS info with minor inaccuracy is better than LIVE traffic today. I just got PLUS, so as I drive it I'll report on the accuracy I experience.

Another consideration is future developments: Every 740 device sold will improve LIVE accuracy. On the flip side, Inrix just reported a 3X expansion of coverage. If that makes it to PLUS (it hasn't yet) then that would mean an even larger gap for LIVE data to catch.

So PLUS seems to be the best data source at this time, and it's available to any Bluetooth tomtom except the 740/940. And since IQroutes is head and shoulders above the competition for the 80% of traffic that is predictable, a Tomtom GO x20/x30 with PLUS is probably the best traffic device on the market today.

 

[Michael Quinlan]

All of this makes me wonder why TomTom would switch providers, when what they are already doing is better. Integrating a GPRS radio into GPS device is a great idea, especially considering that most US wireless carriers charge a monthly fee for tethering. But to then cripple the device by providing LESS traffic data seems unwise. Perhaps they're planning on rapid improvements, but if the LIVE server gets a cold reception in the market, other products supporting the LIVE service, or the LIVE service itself, are unlikely to be successful.

Regarding data, there appears to be a lot more missing in LIVE traffic than just the historical data. Either that, or Yahoo and Google have other sources, as they are identical to each other, but different from LIVE in areas where I know the displayed traffic conditions are VERY different from any historical data.

To do a real-world comparison, yesterday morning I drove to an area known to have congestion on a regular basis during rush hour. Prior to reaching the area, neither PLUS nor LIVE reported any delays, which I thought was odd since PLUS has always (I haven't noticed recently) misreported congestion in the area immediately following where the congestion actually is. Much to my surprise, there was no congestion at all - so my test was a bust.

One of the problems I think we'll have with LIVE traffic data collection is that I believe consumers tend to only use their GPS when they don't know how to get somewhere. When people are travelling in a familar area, their LIVE devices won't be on, and won't be reporting any speed data. To gain the most benefit, people will need to stop thinking of these devices as standalone or receive-only, and realize that they actually collect and transmit data that benefits others.

I'm starting to think I should return my 740 LIVE and just renew PLUS traffic on my 920, and give LIVE another year to see how things shake out. This will require me to keep a separate phone in my truck just for tethering, but that's okay if it gives me better data.

 

[mvl]

I'm starting to think I should return my 740 LIVE and just renew PLUS traffic on my 920, and give LIVE another year to see how things shake out. This will require me to keep a separate phone in my truck just for tethering, but that's okay if it gives me better data.

That's what I'm doing - letting LIVE shake out and sticking with the best for now. Also, I'm waiting for a 940, I can't get myself to spend that much money on a second-rate 740 device. You should definitely add in the map subscription, IQroutes has far more impact on traffic accuracy than any traffic data feed does.

I'm hoping that tomtom releases their 140 LIVE and 340 LIVE devices in the US soon. That will give the mass market a chance to buy in and will really enhance the quality of traffic data provided.