Custom Overlay/Internet Access Software?

[Andrew Revering]

Is there software out there that will let you overlay custom images on the existing TomTom map? Perhaps load shape files or transparent GIF/PNG images?

Additionally, is there software out there that will let you access the Internet through Bluetooth?

My goal is to either get/write some software that will utilize the bluetooth internet to download background radar images that can be overlaid on a TomTom display.

I am a programmer myself, so any direction that I can be given may be something I can take farther myself.. so any help is appreciated.

 

[The Spook]

Is there software out there that will let you overlay custom images on the existing TomTom map?

Not as far as I know.

Perhaps load shape files or transparent GIF/PNG images?

No.

Additionally, is there software out there that will let you access the Internet through Bluetooth?

Check out Opentom.org

My goal is to either get/write some software that will utilize the bluetooth internet to download background radar images ...

What do you mean by radar images??

 

[Andrew Revering]

What do you mean by radar images??

Radar... you know what you see on TV that shows precipitation. in the U.S. the government weather radar is called NEXRAD, or WSR-88D. That.

 

[The Spook]

Radar...

Yes, Radio Detection and Ranging, I have heard of it. There are many different types. You could have been talking about speed-trap radar, aviation radar or marine radar for all I know.

..you know what you see on TV that shows precipitation. in the U.S. the government weather radar is called NEXRAD, or WSR-88D. That.

that's Synthetic Aperture Radar.


I have 3 questions for you;

1) Where do you intend to get these images from (remember you must be able to get an image for any given coordinate, in near-enough real-time)? I assume that you want them for free.

2) Do you have any idea of the bandwidth you would require to constantly stream such images to your TomTom (presumably via a mobile phone), or how much that data traffic would cost you?

3) What would you do with such information? i.e., How would seeing on your TomTom where it is raining be any help to you?


I don't want to stifle your creativity, but think that what you want to do is in practical terms impossible. The effort and expense would (IMO) far outweigh any possible benefit. You know that you could just subscribe to TomTom's weather service right?

 

[Andrew Revering]

1) Where do you intend to get these images from (remember you must be able to get an image for any given coordinate, in near-enough real-time)? I assume that you want them for free.

I own a weather software development company. I've already got the radar data streams and can put the data in any format you'd like. Transparent images that can have an attached world file so TomTom can stretch and overlay the proper coordinates, Shape files to use as polygons, or I could contour the data and distribute it as lines of equal reflectivity that can be shaded in. Similar to the smoother-cartoon like radar images you see on TV.

2) Do you have any idea of the bandwidth you would require to constantly stream such images to your TomTom (presumably via a mobile phone), or how much that data traffic would cost you?

I personally use Sprint for data, and have unlimited data plan, so bandwidth isn't an issue. The file size of the image overlay for example is on the order of 220 K for the entire US image. A script could be written that extracts a subset of that image to fit the range of your TomTom screen to be a fraction of that. I don't think size would be an issue.

3) What would you do with such information? i.e., How would seeing on your TomTom where it is raining be any help to you?

I think it's a great help. If you're on a long drive and you see severe thunderstorms ahead on your trip, you can stop and eat while you wait for the storms to pass. I actually run into this kind of thing a lot as a storm chaser. Not to mention it is useful for the actual storm chasing... but I'm thinking about the general public. You could also use thermodynamics from model data to colorize areas of snow, rain, or mixed precipitation so you can easily see along your route if your precipitation is going to quickly turn to frozen precipitation.

I don't want to stifle your creativity, but think that what you want to do is in practical terms impossible. The effort and expense would (IMO) far outweigh any possible benefit. You know that you could just subscribe to TomTom's weather service right?

I plan to subscribe to their weather service, but I don't think they provide radar. Actually what I understand its somewhat useless, except for the road conditions. Has anyone had experience with this? How does it display icy roads for example?

 

[The Spook]

OK, so you have the data. However, I believe that there are still some things you need to consider, which may give you problems.

Firstly, as I mentioned previously, I don't believe it is possible to overlay a dynamic image in the way you are talking about. The device itself is using vector graphics that are hard coded into the device, the map data does not contain any graphics. You can tell from looking at the device that the range and capability of the vector graphics is pretty limited, so I don't think you will be able to utilise them.

Secondly, bandwidth is still an issue. You will have to stream coordinate information from the device, to your remote server, which can then return an appropriate segment of your precipitation image. This will result in a near-constant 2-way traffic. You have to consider the CPU cost (to the TT) of both receiving that data over BT and rendering it (if that is possible). Even a normal traffic data update (only a few k max) slows down the device noticeably. You will also not be able to use your phone for calls at the same time.

Thirdly, how would you display such an image? The TT's '3D' road-ahead view is extremely limited, extending at maximum to only a kilometer or so, even at highway speeds (it is always less than your view through the windscreen). Top-down 2D view is equally limited. You can zoom out, but it automatically zooms back in. There is no way to stop that AFAIK.

TT, do not provide radar imagery with their weather service, probably because for most people it is entirely useless. You have a better view of upcoming rainclouds through the windscreen. As the TT is a car navigation device, the weather service is focused upon providing road condition information as this is useful to a driver. In my experience this works extremely well. Icy roads are shown as an ice crystal in a red warning triangle on the road.

Did you look at the Opentom project yet? There is no point in re-inventing the wheel. Let us know how your project progresses.

 

[Andrew Revering]

Firstly, as I mentioned previously, I don't believe it is possible to overlay a dynamic image in the way you are talking about. The device itself is using vector graphics that are hard coded into the device, the map data does not contain any graphics.

Vector data could be provided.

Secondly, bandwidth is still an issue. You will have to stream coordinate information from the device, to your remote server, which can then return an appropriate segment of your precipitation image. This will result in a near-constant 2-way traffic.

Not if the slice of data provided is large enough to cover your trek for the next 10 minutes or so, which I really don't think would be a problem at all. We should be talking about very small file sizes for such a small area.

You have to consider the CPU cost (to the TT) of both receiving that data over BT and rendering it (if that is possible). Even a normal traffic data update (only a few k max) slows down the device noticeably.

I've got no counter attack for that one. Certainly sounds like a problem.

You will also not be able to use your phone for calls at the same time.

Probably true, but I wouldn't invision more than a few second update at most every 5 minutes. I know in CMDA EVDO areas an incoming call can kick you off of the internet and come through. This is not possible in CMDA 1xRTT, but most metro areas are EVDO now anyway, as are a lot of rural areas. Not sure about GSM technology.

Thirdly, how would you display such an image? The TT's '3D' road-ahead view is extremely limited, extending at maximum to only a kilometer or so, even at highway speeds (it is always less than your view through the windscreen). Top-down 2D view is equally limited. You can zoom out, but it automatically zooms back in. There is no way to stop that AFAIK.

This is probably the biggest problem I'm hearing. I actually just purchased the TT One LE from Best Buy today, and have just been playing with it over the past few hours. With my Garmin I could zoom out as far as I wanted (incidentally Garmin does have an XM radar data feed you can subscribe to that displays on the Garmin -- so there definately is a demand for this -- as with anything, there is a certain group thats interested). I would say you'd need to be able to zoom out to at least a 30 mile range for it to be remotely useable/interesting, and if that isn't a function you can do then it's a moot point. However, I see you can 'Browse' and get a much larger view of a state or more, which would be in line of what you'd need for this. So perhaps those zoom levels could be tapped into in code.

TT, do not provide radar imagery with their weather service, probably because for most people it is entirely useless. You have a better view of upcoming rainclouds through the windscreen.

I'll tell you from storm chasing here in the U.S. for 13 years that what you see out the window is not always what you're going to get. You use words like Windscreen and Kilometers, so I'm guessing you're not from the US originally. Our weather here is much more volitale than in the UK and there's a lot more to it than just slippery roads and a little thunderstorm. However, I will admit that if I wasn't a storm chaser, I would rarely run into anything that I would be concerned with on a regular basis to pay for such a service.

Icy roads are shown as an ice crystal in a red warning triangle on the road.

Cool, I was wondering about that. That should come in handy here in Minnesota. We're getting our first accumulating snow tonight FYI.

Did you look at the Opentom project yet? There is no point in re-inventing the wheel. Let us know how your project progresses.

Yes, I glanced at it. I didn't get too involved as I wanted to think it through, talk to you and look at the device first.

I think given the information you've enlightened me with along with my own priorities and challenges with this project, I think I'll put it on the backburner and probably never attempt it. But I wouldn't be surprised to see TomTom partner with someone to provide this service in the future, as Garmin already is a step ahead in that feature.

But I must say... I'm thrilled with my One LE. I think the switchover from Garmin to TomTom is the right choice and I am LOVING what I'm seeing so far... and I will subscribe to the Traffic/Road Conditions/Weather feed.

Regards,
Andrew Revering

 

[The Spook]

Hi Andrew,

I understand what it is that you want to do and why, I just think that given the limitations of the equipment (phone and TT) you are going to find it extremely difficult.

As I said, I think that the limited RAM and CPU speed will be problematic on the TT side and DUN over BT is not possible with a CDMA handset, AFAIK. You would have to use GSM.

Perhaps there is a simpler way to achieve the same thing? I was thinking that you could simply grab the coordinate data from the TT over BT and use it to plot your position on a map on your laptop (I assume that you have one with you while storm-chasin). You can geo-register a raster map (scanned from paper or downloaded, and either scroll the map (that would be preferable, as you then have 360 degree 'view' around your position in all directions) or move your position in response to the coordinate data from the TT.

It would be far easier to overlay the radar imagery onto a map like this. You would have the greater processing speed and power of your laptop, a larger screen enabling you to see further ahead and a more familiar platform on which to develop it all. That would be my route I think.

Like I said, keep us informed of progress if you do decide to tackle this project. I for one am very interested.

BTW, your presumption is correct, I am not from the US. Actually, I am not in the US either.

 

[Andrew Revering]

Yeah the radar on the laptop thing has been done a lot. I've done it myself in my F5 software (http://www.f5data.com/), it's been done in a program called SwiftWX (http://www.swiftwx.com/) and in my opinion the best radar software bare none which does GPS plotting is called GRLevel3 (http://www.grlevelx.com). All are great alternatives. All are US weather programs.

 

[lateknightucd]

So I've just been reading through this thread and my thought is, who cares why Andrew wants to do this, why not just help him out without the editorial...sounds like he has a significant amount of experience, and just needs some help specific to TT. Sure it's a really specific application that a small subset of the population will actually use, but why discourage someone who's interested in pushing the limits of TT. I'm guessing he's smart enough to know if he's going to overload his device...just my $0.02

 

[The Spook]

..why not just help him out without the editorial...sounds like he has a significant amount of experience, and just needs some help specific to TT. .

I tried to help him in the best way I know how, by giving him all the facts that I know, pointing to other relevant sources of useful information and giving him the specifics of the TT OS. I can't help any more than that! Nobody has to listen to my opinion. It is just that, my opinion, freely offered.

..but why discourage someone who's interested in pushing the limits of TT.

I didn't! Equally, I don't want to provide false hope (and waste Andrew's time) by encouraging him to do something that may not be possible. Basically, what Andrew wants to do is (IMO) impossible. If possible, it is beyond the scope of my knowledge. I suggested what I felt would be a superior solution.

Besides, I didn't see anyone else come up with any better ideas, or answers to any of Andrew's questions. He may not have got the answer he was looking for, but that's life! At least he got an answer.

lateknightucd, why don't you tell us all how it could be done? I for one would be very interested to know...

 

[Iraxmas]

Good Luck

I'm a noob and I was listening to this thread. I'm not sure if weather info or satallite data can be transmitted to a tom tom... I personally like the graphics of my tomtom over garmin for street navigationg but Garmin has TomTom beat when it comes to specialized SAtNAV products. The garmin GPSMap 60scx and the Garmin 367c.476c etc.. are pretty good units. The Garmin 376C for example is a multi use device set up for boating and aero use as well as car. The unit it has the ability to display weather information with a subscription to XM satellite weather with nexrad. This option giving the viewer all sorts of weather information here are some features I found from the website. www.xmradio.com/weather/learn_about.xmc#proddefs and www.angelridevideos.com/reviews/Garmin376C.html I am in EMS and Rescue so these units are of particular interest to me. good luck and I look forward to modding my tom tom with some of the creative applications you all come up with. Thanks for reading this and good luck with your innovations.

Ixmas
S Orange Technical Rescue
Swift Water Rescue Technician

 

[steakman]

Very Interesting thread. A very kewl proposition..one that I could use for sure. I travel (drive), through Alberta and BC on a regular basis. The weather changes so fast that counting on a forecast from CBC or the weather channel is not allways a good thing.

I can understand spook's comments in that this may be difficult with the current platforms...notefully cpu (cooling, speed etc), along with the data aquisition issues. Hopefully these are things that can be resolved and mayve this is an application that we will see in the future...very near maybe.

Carry on Andrew..! I'd like to see it. Andhopefully afford it if it does come to pass.

BTW Spook...i did not find your comments discouraging..you were clear and concise in presenting potential issues with what Andrew was looking to achieve.

As always, this is the problem with e-mail and posting through alphanumerics....no tone or inflection can shown as to how you say it.

Cheers,

stk

 

[Andrew Revering]

Unfortunately I am not continuing to work on this idea. I've got other projects that are more important.