Cannot find GPS Signal

[johntee]

Hi,

I bought my 'TomTom Start 25' two days ago to replace my old 'TomTom ONE' even though it still works great. However the new TT device cannot find a GPS signal much of the time and loses it regularly when it does.

For comparison purposes I set up the new TomTom Start 25 & my old faithful TomTom ONE side by side on my car windscreen, navigated an exact same route for each and drove off when signals were there on both. In the first instance the TomTom Start 25 did not even start to monitor my journey for nearly 200 metres and even then it was way behind with its confused spoken, and visual instruction. It lagged behind miserably along the whole journey and did not even warn me of a speed camera until I had passed it by at least 100 metres. My good old TomTom ONE, however, responded immediately upon driving off and gave quick and exact spoken and visual directions from the off. It wiped the floor with the TomTom Start 25.


For reference, the new 'TomTom Start 25' has ALL the latest updates from TomTom, including the MANDATORY one for GPS location problems and I used the newly downloaded and installed utility "My TOMTOM" for updates. I've done the "Reset" by holding down the power button until drum roll, and thereafter taking my 'TomTom Start 25' outside in open view of the sky and no buildings. It found around 3 to 4 satellites after about 15 minutes. This has not improved things at all, in fact I've repeated the latter procedues many times.


Once again, for comparison purposes I stood both my 'TomTom Start 25' & my old TomTom ONE side by side in an open space area, booted up both devices simultaneously, and went into their respective GPS satellite scanning areas. My TomTom ONE found 7 good signal satellites within 20 seconds, my 'TomTom Start 25' took 15 minutes and found only 3 or 4 before locking and unlocking on those miserly available few.

What's going on here guys, can anybody help me further?


It appears there is a known problem with low GPS signal locating and locking with TomTom 25 models. Numerous people have complained about this for some considerable time now.



I bought my TomTom Start 25 from Halfords motor store here in the UK, and upon their recommendation. I will of course be returning it for a full refund and an apology if I cannot solve this issue soon. Any consumer is quite justified in questioning why the TomTom 25 models continue to be retailed regardless of this inhibiting condition?


Practises like this will drag TomTom's reputation into the gutter in no time for sure.


Regards,

John

 

[dhn]

Certainly the mandatory application upgrade and reset should have improved the situation. After the initial gps lock outside (which you did) which is expected to take up to 15 minutes as you've found, subsequent off/ons should not take that long.... a couple of minutes, maybe.

Just to be sure, what application shows as being on the Start 25?

 

[johntee]

HI dhn,

Whooops, forgot to mention that:-

Device: BL5531****** (0) ( 8.9 )

App. 11.037.920860.74 (0) (3015, 5/4/2012

OS: 824205

GPS: 2.16.201 127698

Boot: 642776

Map: Europe v890.4241 Release date: 4/2012

Language: English UK


Regards,

John

 

[dhn]

Application seems ok. Don't know what to tell you. A 15 minutes duration for a gps lock every time is extreme.

Is the unit in a stationary position and an open area when it's turned on?

 

[johntee]

Hi dhn,

Sure is, the rear of my home is open space, not even a building in site for 100 metres.

I set both devices at the furthest position from my home, away from the trees we have and in full vision of the sky.

It's driving me crazy.

Just for interest my old TomTom ONE will pick up at least 5 satellites inside my home and with good signal strength too.

The TomTom Start 25............. well........... not a hope of that !!

Someone has reportedly read that TomTom are saying there is a fault with a "third generation Chip"........ that's apart from the known software issue.


Regards,

John

 

[dhn]

That's my experiece as well. The Nav3 devices don't seem to have as 'robust' a chip as do Nav2 devices I have available.

But, to repeat, 15 minutes for a lock every time is NOT normal, even for a N3 devices.

 

[johntee]

Hi everyone,

It seems that a signal problem still exists with my TomTom Start 25 and was wondering whether an inductive aerial could be fixed to the outside of the devices case, very close to where the internal aerial is located? This would hopefully induce an additional minute signal across, and, whilst small, it may be of sufficient strength to kick-start the TT internal electronics into "lock" .

A similar one is available for the certain mobile phones to increase its signal.

Quote:

Short, approximately 18" cable, used to connect a Wilson Cellular Cell Phone Antenna to a cellular phone.


The Samsung Epic 4G, Galaxy S, SPH-D700 does not have an antenna port so an inductive coupler adapter is used instead. When looking at the back of the phone, the adapter should be attached (with included velcro) near the bottom right of the phone (the location of the phone's internal antenna.)
While inductive couplers do work they do not perform as well as antenna adapters that plug directly into a phone. To improve the performance of an inductive coupler, you can add an 811201 inline amplifier or use a SignalBoost amplifier instead. (SignalBoost amplifiers include a smaller inductive coupler) to boost the 2G and 3G signal.


Your comments are welcomed.


Regards,


John

 

[canderson]

@johntee
There should be no need at all to add external hardware to capture a signal... with the sole exception of being in a vehicle with a metallic window tint that prevents the signal from penetrating to the interior of the vehicle -- and it sounds like you've been holding it in your hand out in open space.

Honestly - nothing you are experiencing is normal, and I'm within a hair's breadth of suggesting you return it for a replacement. This unit sounds like the sensitivity is far below par for some reason. While these new units don't seem to be as sensitive as the older ones, what you are experiencing is abnormal.

Out of curiosity, when you see 4 'locked' (green) satellites on the display, how many yellow (not locked) satellites are you seeing?

 

[johntee]

@johntee

Out of curiosity, when you see 4 'locked' (green) satellites on the display, how many yellow (not locked) satellites are you seeing?

Hi, thanks for replying to my post,

The format from booting up and displaying the "GPS Status" scanner screen is normally as follows:-

The TomTom scanner is rotating -

The display background is a pale blue colour and the non-locked satellites vary in number from an initial 4 to as many as 9. These appear and disappear randomly during the scanning process. Then for some reason they will all disappear. A few moments later 2 will then appear and remain static, one being in the top (N) position, and the other in the "Central" area of the display. The latter condition will remain in the '2 only' state for ages before the scanner re-displays a varying amount again of between 4 to 9 satellites. During the latter scanning sector, the TomTom momentarily tries to lock on to the odd satellite, the scanner background screen colour momentarily blips "Dark blue" as if a lock has been established, fails, and the process of scanning reverts back to the original "boot-up" sequence. When a successful lock is eventually established about 6 or 7 satellites (with slight variation) are shown on the GPS scanner. The odd non locked satellites blip on and off.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, with my old TomTom ONE placed just about a foot away, it locates satellites from a simultaneous SatNav device boot-up to my TomTom Start 25 in less than 30 seconds or less, and maintained these locks.

The satellites are obviously there and available, however is seems the "TomTom Start 25" cannot process sufficient signal to lock them. I do believe this is a potential hardware problem besides TomTom's mandatory GPS software update of late to fix this.

I actually love this new TomTom Start 25 when it's functioning, it's features are great for such a low price (£170-00 UK ), but it needs to work properly. It has come to the point where I'm having to use my TomTom ONE next to my TT25 on car journeys if I wish to maintain coverage. NOT ideal for sure.

Thank you once again for your response; any further help is very welcomed.

John

 

[canderson]

The original diagnosis of poor sensitivity seems to be confirmed by your description above. I'd return it either to the point of purchase or TomTom for a replacement.

 

[johntee]

The original diagnosis of poor sensitivity seems to be confirmed by your description above. I'd return it either to the point of purchase or TomTom for a replacement.

Yes, I feared this would be the conclusion after mega hours trying to solve what is a known manufacturer's problem. I've done every possible thing in my power to rectify this,

I should sue them for compensation.

Now comes the unenviable task of haggleing with the retailer, who is not unknown for being a "pain in the ass" when returning defective stuff, irrespective of evidence.

Thanks for your reply and advice,

Regards,

John

 

[canderson]

Can't say it's a "known manufacturer's problem". It's quite rare that we hear of this sort of thing - dating back a very long ways indeed. Tends to be an "all or nothing" problem.

Who is your retailer, BTW?

 

[johntee]

Can't say it's a "known manufacturer's problem". It's quite rare that we hear of this sort of thing - dating back a very long ways indeed. Tends to be an "all or nothing" problem.

Who is your retailer, BTW?

Hello again,

Yes, known manufacturer's problem is used in a very loose sort of way. The complaints in regard to customers being unable to get a GPS signal are quite numerous and thus the need for TomTom to initiate a "mandatory" update to address this. One could therefore say, without malice, that TT knew they had a problem in that particular area.

My retailer is actually Halfords, a national motoring product outlet here in the UK. It's a really great place to go for anything pertaining to cars, cycles, and associated products etc.

However it's known that some stores are being somewhat resistive to replacing defective products readily. Customers are subjected to a "French inquisition" type of thing before goods are exchanged. I cannot believe, hopefully not any way, that this is a practise condoned by their "Head Office", so to speak. My proposed visit with my obviously malfunctioning "TomTom Start 25" may, or may not, provide solid proof of this.

Many thanks for your help to date,

John

 

[canderson]

No, the problem that the manufacturer acknowledged and fixed was a bit of firmware related to the function of the GPS chip itself. What you have is an entirely different problem, and is unquestionably hardware related. Again, an unusual lack of sensitivity without an outright failure to obtain a lock is an extremely rare problem.

Better the French Inquisition than the Spanish Inquisition.

Good luck, and yes, good idea to take the unit with you. You can tell them on our behalf that you're experiencing something abnormal and not good, as if our 2 farthings worth are worth anything

 

[johntee]

Hello once again

RE: Good luck, and yes, good idea to take the unit with you. You can tell them on our behalf that you're experiencing something abnormal and not good, as if our 2 farthings worth are worth anything ,

May I express my sincere thanks to you as a forum "Super Moderator"; a title well deserved, and all others who have contributed to my posting for help.

I'm certainly no MIDAS but I'm pretty damn sure I can convert those generously donated '2 farthings' into a solid GOLD dollar.

Best wishes to all,

John

 

[canderson]

Just wish there had been something we could have helped you with that didn't entail a return to Halford's. Still, good to know that you're on solid ground with your complaint, and not wasting time fiddling about with antennae and the like. The latter is fun, but this thing should behave much better without resorting to that. Further, the way the patch antenna is oriented on the PCB on these models, I don't think there's much that would have worked 'inductively'.

My guess is that you have either a timing issue that is putting the device on the hairy edge of being able to receive and lock the signal from the satellites, an RF issue on the board, or a bad GPS chip.

 

[johntee]

Hello canderson & friends,

RE: Just wish there had been something we could have helped you with that didn't entail a return to Halford's. Still, good to know that you're on solid ground with your complaint, and not wasting time fiddling about with antennae and the like.

I too wished it would not have entailed a return to retailer scenario. However, through life these 'little' challenges do come along and it's sometimes best to 'take the bull by its horns' and get on with it.

You can be very assured that you have helped me tremendously here on our forum, maybe not in actually rectifying the problem physically, but by supporting my case with your experience and knowledge of TomTom devices. This will undoubtedly support my presentation at my Halford's store later. I shall print off all my communications with you in respect to the issue in hand, and use this as a potential "Ace up my sleeve" should I have need of it. ( French or Spanish inquisition )

I believe you may have 'hit the nail on its head' by your electronic analogy of my TomTom Start 25's lack of sensitivity, it's now down to TT to evaluate the device and hopefully thereafter come up with a solution which will help not just them as manufacturers, but we as the their SatNav buying consumer too.

Kindest regards, as ever,

John

 

[Wyvern46]

It's probably a faulty chip - back to the store I suggest.