920 constantly turning itself on

I went through two 720s that were frequently turning themselves on randomly. Finally, I got a 920 which was fine until I upgraded to the version 8.xx application. I tried version 8.xx every time there was a new version, but it always caused the phantom turn on problem to appear. Going back to version 7 always fixed it.

I just recently updated it to the latest map, and of course that meant I had to install 8.351. Now the turn on bug is back, and making my 920 almost useless.

About 30 seconds after I turn it off it, it turns back on, and does a hard reboot (like I did a pin reset). It does this more than half the time after I turn it off. Because of this, the battery is frequently completely dead when I want to use it. It also frequently crashes and has to do a full reboot when I turn it on (displaying the user agreement).

I'm trying to work with Tomtom technical support, but they are just giving me general tips like running clear flash, or re-loading the application. Is there a known cure for the random turn on bug? I know this is a common problem. Has anyone been able to get Tomtom to admit it?
 
Do you clear the route after each trip? Some say that helps.
It's hard to tell if it makes any difference. It's definitely not a 100% fix. Also, I sometimes turn it off mid rout if I stop along the way. I want to be able to just turn it back on and continue.

Considering what these things cost, I want a sure fix, not a work around. It really bothers me that such a good product is crippled by such a dumb problem. It would be like if the headlights in a Lexus frequently turned on by themselves and ran the battery down.

Tomtom knows about the problem, and we should demand a permanent fix. I'm definitely going to do a credit card charge back on the new maps if they can't fix the problem.
 
Tomtom knows about the problem, and we should demand a permanent fix. I'm definitely going to do a credit card charge back on the new maps if they can't fix the problem.

They have known of the problem for a very long time ( well over a year ).

None of the Navcore updates ever even address this known problem.

There are a few threads on the subject ( many I've posted in ).

its a bug in the software.

there are a few so called fixes but none of them really work....the " clear flash " tool from tomtom does sometimes help for a period of time.
 

canderson

Moderator
I went through two 720s that were frequently turning themselves on randomly. Finally, I got a 920 which was fine until I upgraded to the version 8.xx application. I tried version 8.xx every time there was a new version, but it always caused the phantom turn on problem to appear. Going back to version 7 always fixed it.

I just recently updated it to the latest map, and of course that meant I had to install 8.351. Now the turn on bug is back, and making my 920 almost useless.

About 30 seconds after I turn it off it, it turns back on, and does a hard reboot (like I did a pin reset). It does this more than half the time after I turn it off. Because of this, the battery is frequently completely dead when I want to use it. It also frequently crashes and has to do a full reboot when I turn it on (displaying the user agreement).

I'm trying to work with Tomtom technical support, but they are just giving me general tips like running clear flash, or re-loading the application. Is there a known cure for the random turn on bug? I know this is a common problem. Has anyone been able to get Tomtom to admit it?
At soft shut down with the button, the TT writes a number of things back to flash and does some "housecleaning" before it goes to "sleep". Clearly, your TT is crashing as it does so, causing it to reboot. The problem isn't actually one of turning on, it's one of crashing as it goes to sleep. Same difference to you, though.

I have heard stories of sectors of internal NVRAM going bad after manufacture on TT units, but not very often.

DHN - I know you've got the magic link somewhere for the use of a reformatter that TomTom supplies, along with the reload instructions. It should cause any new bad chunks of internal NVRAM to get remapped on the fly so they don't get used in the future.
 
Canderson, I've used ClearFlash before. It has not eliminated the problem on my 930. It's been a fairly common complaint that began with v8.x. It's not just users that have seen it. A TomTom employee came into work one morning to find an entire box of brand new x30's up and running. He initially thought someone was playing a joke on him ( or so the story goes from a reliable friend of mine)

EDIT: Out of curiosity, I just took my 930 out and tried to turn it on. It's dead. I charged it fully about 2 weeks ago when I updated the application. Sure does appear it's been on.
 
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has anyone tried error correction

Has anyone gone to properties in the tom tom folder then go to tools and then error correction after which you should check both boxes and then let error correction fun fully. Every once in a while when I randomely do this it does correct an error in tom tom and stores it in a specal file.
i know that each tomtom is possible different but since the 920 came out and I have updated to the current appication so far I have never had this problem But I do run this error correction once a month Good luck anytway.
 
Has anyone gone to properties in the tom tom folder then go to tools and then error correction after which you should check both boxes and then let error correction fun fully. Every once in a while when I randomely do this it does correct an error in tom tom and stores it in a specal file.
i know that each tomtom is possible different but since the 920 came out and I have updated to the current appication so far I have never had this problem But I do run this error correction once a month Good luck anytway.

As for my 930....the ONLY navcore that NEVER turned itself on was 8.002....but you can't use 8.002 when running the newer maps.


I have tried your suggestion in the past and also just the other day on the newer 8.351 navcore....it still turns itself on from time to time.
 

canderson

Moderator
Canderson, I've used ClearFlash before. It has not eliminated the problem on my 930.
ClearFlash will erase everything this side of the boot loader, but does it actually hard format the non-boot area of flash so that any new bad sectors will be mapped out? That's what needs to happen. TomTom doesn't specify the clearflash tool for this kind of problem, so I have my doubts.

TomTom would be managing the entire flash from its own processor, not some separate flash controller as you'd find on an SD card, so the tool would necessarily be some sort of firmware run on the TomTom itself... perhaps even a function of the bootloader called by some external command, but definitely run ON the TomTom.
 
I agree that it's really crashing while going into sleep, since it always does a full reboot and displays the user agreement when it turns itself on.

I doubt it's caused by errors in the flash memory (at least in most cases). While flash memory can fail, it's very reliable, and I've never had a flash card fail, even after years of rewriting it. My Tomtom has only been rewritten a hand full of times (to restore backups, or new maps). I have completely erased it when reverting to an older backup, and there were never any errors reported while writing to it. I've also made many full backups using Windows explorer, and it should have reported any read errors.

It seems to me that it has to be one of the following problems:

1. Application bug
2. Firmware bug
3. Hardware design flaw
4. Hardware failure

I think we can rule #4 out unless Tomtom bought a bunch of defective parts. #1 seems most likely since the problem comes and goes with application version. #2 could also be part of the problem. It could also be #3, but the fact that some application versions work means it's something that can be worked around in the application.

Is it possible to update any of the low level firmware/BIOS?
 

canderson

Moderator
I would agree that bad flash is rare these days, but don't look at SD cards or thumb drives as your measure. These cards contain controllers that automatically map around bad chunks of memory. A CPU that is managing the flash hardware and file system by itself (e.g., the TomTom's processor) doesn't necessarily do so. Code must be written to manage all of the error detection and remapping -- and sometimes there's an assumption made that it isn't necessary. We had a very interesting "chat" about that here at work a couple of years ago: "What are the consequences if we don't, and there really is a bad sector out there somewhere"?

It seems odd that the incidence of this problem isn't actually far higher if we're looking at a true firmware problem, unless it's that the error checking and remapping of the firmware isn't working? That would fully explain the complete hit or miss the user population seems to be seeing on this problem.

As for your low level code, it is sometimes updated as a function of updating to a new firmware level. Once it's in there, it's in there ... there's no mechanism for reverting to a prior level of boot code.
 

canderson

Moderator
OK - an assumption I've made could be incorrect ...

To the OP:

IF you power the unit down immediately after the spontaneous reboot, does it STAY off THEN? And I do mean immediately. No attempt to navigate, no fiddling with the touch screen at all. Give it nothing whatsoever new to write to flash on a power down. Just pressing the power button...
 
OK - an assumption I've made could be incorrect ...

To the OP:

IF you power the unit down immediately after the spontaneous reboot, does it STAY off THEN? And I do mean immediately. No attempt to navigate, no fiddling with the touch screen at all. Give it nothing whatsoever new to write to flash on a power down. Just pressing the power button...
Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. Often, it takes 3, or more tries to get it to turn off.
 

canderson

Moderator
Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. Often, it takes 3, or more tries to get it to turn off.
I'm going to have to rethink my idea of the root cause then. If it had reliably shut down after a fresh reboot, it would have made sense. When it's hit or miss, though...

Is the unit coming fully up to the nav screen each time you shut it down? I'm now looking for anything at ALL that could explain why the problem can't be duplicated more reliably (apart from hardware issues).

Problem is, the "sometimes" doesn't sound much like firmware. A cold reboot like you are getting should provide a truly deterministic result when you go to power it down, provided it's in the same state each time you make the attempt -- not variable results. Yuck.
 
Since no one seems to have a definitive(sp) answer,maybe a new approach.On PCs I've seen the option of wake on LAN or with MODEM activity,is it possible these units are picking up a signal from BT data via phone and turning on?
A few things I might try

1)turn off bluetooth
2)remove SD card if there is one
3)leave in the cradle to charge (I know the 920 has one) others may too.(maybe when the battery gets to a certain level(low) it turns on.


I can't think of what other things to turn off ,but since nothing else anybody has tried has helped ,thought I maybe running the units with the most basic of options may tweak someone to come up with an answer.
 
Since no one seems to have a definitive(sp) answer,maybe a new approach.On PCs I've seen the option of wake on LAN or with MODEM activity,is it possible these units are picking up a signal from BT data via phone and turning on?
It's not really turning on, it's crashing while in standby (or going into standby) and rebooting.
 

mvl

Moderator
Have you guys tried a full flash reformat? I hear HOME has a tendency to disconnect too early during updates (causing corruption mid-flash-write).

Try these steps, post back if it does / doesn't help any. Most 920/930 owners seem to have the bug, but what's surprising me is that doctormstein1 doesn't, meaning there's some way to get things to work properly.
 
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Mine has been doing this since new, before any updates were done. Disabling bluetooth has helped, but not eliminated it. Most of the reports I had seen were on the first release, back last June/July, then not mentioned much until the last couple of application updates. Don't know if those have anything to do with it or whether it's just one of those cycles where users notice someone else's complaint and note their own experience.
 
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